Downlights OMG

[Lurch]

I was at a Safety Council presentation on downlights last year, they highlighted that plastic flower pots :| were not a good idea as had been found on one fire investigation, so I think that might rule out soil pipe

I nearly said don;t use plastic ones. Plastic soil pipe is fine as it is vented to the cooler air of the roof space so there is no heat build up in the pipe. Plastic flowerpots are bad as they aren;t vented adequeately so the heat builds up inside them and they melt.

 

[androiduk2002]

I was at a Safety Council presentation on downlights last year, they highlighted that plastic flower pots :| were not a good idea as had been found on one fire investigation, so I think that might rule out soil pipeLike Lurch I have used large terracotta pots in the past

Plastic flower pots are alot thinner plastic than a soil pipe but I do take your point, maybe a square box of plaster board without a lid on made fairly high then is could be losely fixed with a construction adhesive

 

[green-hornet]

I like the 4" soil pipe idea , allows the heat out at least

Shame it does not comply with the manufacturer installation instructions for most downlights as to the minimum distances from any other objects.

If you take a 75mm cutout for a fitting, then encase it in a plastic pipe which will be 150mm, not a lot of room there at all in reality.

You can make or purchase properly constructed insulation gaurds for downlights, these keep a minimum distance of about 150mm or more, and are ventilated for heat dissipation.

If your interested there has been a report from the fire brigade this year that reports one of the main causes of house fires have been from badly installed and designed downlights.

Thats both from installation faults where we are responsible, and from manufacture faults which are out of our control.

 

[Robojin]

Just a thought, since these DL's appear to be installed in L&P even in plaster boxes we still have a proximity to wood issue

But presumably as they are in place it's a take em out or protect them from insulation scenareo

 

[androiduk2002]

Shame it does not comply with the manufacturer installation instructions for most downlights as to the minimum distances from any other objects.If you take a 75mm cutout for a fitting, then encase it in a plastic pipe which will be 150mm, not a lot of room there at all in reality.

You can make or purchase properly constructed insulation gaurds for downlights, these keep a minimum distance of about 150mm or more, and are ventilated for heat dissipation.

If your interested there has been a report from the fire brigade this year that reports one of the main causes of house fires have been from badly installed and designed downlights.

Thats both from installation faults where we are responsible, and from manufacture faults which are out of our control.

My issue would be if a insulation installer just covered the vented boxes , I do like the plastboard idea with an open top allowing heat out these could be made 2 foot high (space allowing) with obviously making sure all manufacturers instructions adeared to for clearances .

 

[green-hornet]

What you have to remember is that you may not get the heat required to set fire to the wood from normal use of the downlight, but what would happen under any fault?

The timber will be tinder dry, its been kept so warm for ages, and a simple hot fault could easily ignite a very dry timber.It may smoulder for days before a full blown blaze is evident.

I never have liked downlights and never will.

50 watts per downlight? and they always want 500 of them in a house, shocking and should be banned.

 

[green-hornet]

My issue would be if a insulation installer just covered the vented boxes , I do like the plastboard idea with an open top allowing heat out these could be made 2 foot high (space allowing) with obviously making sure all manufacturers instructions adeared to for clearances .

Apology, I did misinterpret the first post and I agree that suggestion is ideal.

 

[androiduk2002]

Just a thought, since these DL's appear to be installed in L&P even in plaster boxes we still have a proximity to wood issueBut presumably as they are in place it's a take em out or protect them from insulation scenareo

Very true Robojin maybe remove and treat wood with a flame retardent ?? I dont know if that would help.

 

[androiduk2002]

Apology, I did misinterpret the first post and I agree that suggestion is ideal.

No problem buddy

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I'm not sure if you are or not, but there seems to be a misunderstanding amongst many that the term "fire rated" when applied to a downlight means that it is not capable of starting a fire and can thus be covered in insulation. This is not so.

The term means that the light unit is so designed to prevent the passage of fire from one side of the mounting surface to the other. This is usually achieved by having a canister behind the light which contains an intumescent material, which will expand and fill the can in the event of fire, thus preventing its transmission through the hole.

In normal operation the can usually has cooling holes in its top and it is just as important not to cover the light with insulation as it is with standard units. Covering a fire rated downlighter can cause it to overheat just the same as any other.

There are products you can buy to place over lights to keep insulation off, but they tend to cost about

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I was at the property to sort out a TV cabling solution, and the customer asked if I could look a a downlight in the kitchen that did not work, took the fitting out and found the the transformer had blown, as I'm looking at the hole I realise that this fitting had been installed touching a joist, so told them I would not replace unless it was moved.While I'm looking at this fitting the husband (pensioner) asked if I was NICEIC certified, because he needed to know if it was safe to have loft insulation installed (I guess the insulation company had told him he needed an NIC contractor to check first, progress it seems)

I told him that as I needed to go up in the loft to check the TV aerial I'd cast an eye over the electrics, and venture an opinion on suitability

Sorry for the poor image, no flash on phone

Yes your eyes do not deceive you!!, why let a ceiling joist get in the way of the pattern you want for your downlights, so far as I could tell this idiot had removed about 75% of the joist rather than cut a new hole in a safer place OMG!, I then had retrace my steps, bit like a mine field Pray that I did not tread on another like it!!

I've told this chap that this needs to be disconnected from circuit ASAP, and all the downlights need to be either upgraded/firehood/removed before any insulation is installed

So far as I could tell every bedroom has them, and must be 40+, to me it looks as if the cost of sorting this lot out will outweigh any insulation saving for several years, any thoughts on cost effective solutions to this one?

Needs the lamp removed and some new timber put in the strengthen that bit of ceiling joist IMHO!

 

[a1]

Completely agree, was just mulling ideas over in my head on forum paper so to speak

Applaud Smiley

I like that.

 

[Robojin]

Needs the lamp removed and some new timber put in the strengthen that bit of ceiling joist IMHO!

That was My thought, or perhaps a metal brace bolted either side, I can picture the insulation installers stepping on this 'CRACK!!' Applaud Smiley

 

[M107]

Not any good for the fittings in the joist but....

http://www.isolite.com.au/

 

[PC Electrics]

My issue would be if a insulation installer just covered the vented boxes , I do like the plastboard idea with an open top allowing heat out these could be made 2 foot high (space allowing) with obviously making sure all manufacturers instructions adeared to for clearances .

The intention is that the box should be enclosed, with a lid. the total enclosed volume should be about 0.8 to 1.0 cu ft to allow enough air space for the heat to dissipate through the box.

I've uploaded the Wiring Matters article, just waiting for it to be approved and then you'll be able to see it.

 

[ianmacd]

The snaplite mains ones are available with insulation standoff that should prevent the need for a box or enclosure around it.

 

[Robojin]

The snaplite mains ones are available with insulation standoff that should prevent the need for a box or enclosure around it.

Thanks Ian, just gave them a call seems to be a much safer solution, about

 

[ianmacd]

Didn't think they did the LV with standoffs. THought it was only the Mains ones.