DPC - Please comment on the BSI site.

[Sidewinder]

For those who are not aware.

The DPC for the next version of BS7671 is live and here:

https://standardsdevelopment.bsigroup.com/projects/2016-01445

If you are working in the industry, this is your chance to have your input on what the next version of "the regs" says.

If you don't comment, then you will have no say, so don't complain if and when the next version has a change you don't like.,

You can have input, and your input WILL be considered, if, it is reasoned and articulate.

So if you just put something like "this is rubbish" it will be ignored.

However, if you put something like,:

"This regulation should be reconsidered because there are several issues that would be experienced by electricians in the field in implementing this regulation as written!

"Such as, x, y, z".

"These issues would cause problems because of,..."

Then the second proposal will get much greater consideration by the committees.

You can make a difference, and please do so.

If you don't comment then don't complain when the new version is issued.

 

[Sharpend]

Link just says your login has expired? Is this not an open link? 

 

[Lurch]

Link just says your login has expired? Is this not an open link? 

Nope, you need to log in. The poor error/disastrous website is just to make it look like they have no money and can't afford to do things properly so we feel sorry for them and pay another £150 for a new set of books every year.

 

[M107]

Chapter 42 Protection against thermal effects A new Regulation 421.7 has been introduced for the installation of arc fault detection devices (AFDDs) to mitigate the risk of fire in final circuits of a fixed installation due to the effect of arc fault currents.

Oh dear

 

[Andy™]

Oh dear

on the plus side, the regulation says

'Arc fault detection devices conforming to BS EN 62606 may be used to provide additional protection against fire caused by arc faults in AC final circuits.'

so it does seem as though they are not making it mandatory. at least not in this edition

 

[Lurch]

Good, because I have a few hundred random MCB's I need to use up first!

 

[Tony S]

RCD’s were a recommendation in the 14th, now they are more or less compulsory. AFDD’s now have a toe hold so where will it end?

I’ve got to get my arse in gear to write a comparison of BS7671 and NFPA-NEC wiring practices, particularly the supply connection to receptacles and the construction of appliance cords.

New installations are not tested as a mater of course therefore faults like high resistance connections are overlooked.

Both BS-EN62605 and UL1699 product testing methods are flawed. For example, to start a parallel arc fault requires 2,000V to initiate the test.

In the field testing equipment is almost non existent. The equipment that there is just gives a pass/fail, no reading that can be recorded.

Whereas we use tunnel terminals for most accessories the Americans use wrap around terminals. American electricians will admit they are prone to becoming loose.

Appliance cords are often figure of eight single insulated.

Receptacles are often mounted upside down so the appliance cord has to bend through 180° to reach floor level.

US appliance plugs have no OCPD built in, they rely on the circuit OCPD back in the main panel.

I’ll add more as I think of them.

 

[Sidewinder]

If you are not happy about AFDD then comment, explain in sound technical terms why they are not needed and a pain to end users and simply unnecessary.

 

[Tony S]

Paul it’s not a question of me being unhappy about AFDD’s as they won’t affect me. What does annoy me is the way the NEC and now the IET have been influenced by the manufacturers.

I’ve asked on a NEC code site for more evidence of the failings of the AFCI.

 

[Sharpend]

Whilst it may not effect yourself Tony, I'd ask you to think of those here that they will effect and would appreciate your in depth knowledge of such to aid our cause. 

Thankyou. 

 

[Rob_the_rich]

542.1.201 The main earthing terminal shall be connected with Earth by one of the methods described in
Regulations 542.1.2.1 to 3, as appropriate to the type of system of which the installation is to form a part and in
compliance with Regulations 542.1.3.1 and 542.1.3.2. Additionally, there shall be an earth electrode, supplementing
any earthing facility provided by the distributor, in accordance with one of the requirements of Regulation 542.2.3,
to prevent the appearance of a dangerous touch voltage in the event of the loss of the main connection to Earth.

This one is worth a comment or two. 

 

[binky]

just tried reading that lot and lost the will to live

 

[Tony S]

Whilst it may not effect yourself Tony, I'd ask you to think of those here that they will effect and would appreciate your in depth knowledge of such to aid our cause. 

Thankyou. 

Sharpie I’m retired and it was a tongue in cheek comment, in reality it will have an adverse effect on all of the UK domestic electrical trade.

You may or may not know the term “greasy chin” (the manufacturers wine and dine the relevant people). There’s been a lot of greasy chins to get AFDD’s on to the NEC and IET gravy trains.

Something I need to find out about is why AFCI’s only apply to 120V circuits, 240V circuits are exempt. In you’re bedroom you can have a vibrating heated waterbed on 240V protected by a GFCI (RCD) but the 120V lamp on the bedside table has to have GFCI and AFCI protection.

 

[Evans Electric]

Me too .  

 

[Rob_the_rich]

it is a bit easier to read if you download the pdf and view it in a reader. You have to use the BSI site to add/view comments though.

 

[Sidewinder]

it is a bit easier to read if you download the pdf and view it in a reader. You have to use the BSI site to add/view comments though.

The last pdf I downloaded did not show the differences, i.e. the new or changed regulations though!

I am a bit remiss myself in sorting this out.

I have two jobs to finish for desperate customers, then I'll spend some serious time on this.

 

[Rob_the_rich]

The last pdf I downloaded did not show the differences, i.e. the new or changed regulations though!

I am a bit remiss myself in sorting this out.

I have two jobs to finish for desperate customers, then I'll spend some serious time on this.

Yeah it doesn't show the differences, no vertical lines to the side of new regs. Its a case of reading PDF and checking byb. What a pain.

 

[Evans Electric]

I just registered but its too late at night to start reading Regs .

Plus after taking Mrs Deke to the doctor's on Friday we both became ill  ...something in the damn waiting area no doubt .   Theres a chicken pox epidemic apparently but we've both had that .

 

[Rob_the_rich]

@Sidewinder you have the digital version of the byb, is there a way to compare the two documents to get a list of the diffs? Apart from the obvious section 8 of course.

 

[Rob_the_rich]

Something like https://helpx.adobe.com/acrobat/using/compare-documents.html

or https://comparesuite.com/compare-pdf-documents.html (free 30-day trial)