Earth continuity code

[steptoe]

Okay:Adrian has a valid point (my initial thoughts, on reading the O/P, were code 2/3). It DOES require further investigation, to determine where the break occurs.

If I had enough time on site; expecting the fault to be a loose cpc in a socket; I`d locate and resolve - it won`t take very long, FCOL.

There is also the issue that, if you couldn`t get an end-to-end continuity on the ring, you shouldn`t have done any further tests on that circuit, as they`re meaningless.

Albert: Sorry mate, but unless one of the socket outlets has no earth continuity at all, it must be a code 2. I couldn`t envisage giving a code 1 for that, under any other circumstance mate. Sorry.

Once you find the FIRST ring circuit test gives a fault; you either resolve the problem, or "lim" every other test on the circuit.

KME

dont apologise KME,

we all have our ways of doing things,

I do my earth tests first, therefore if I find a broken cpc continuity on a ring I stop the test,

I see no point in testing further if the cpc is incapable(IMO) of completing the circuit,,,,,

in practice I may complete the tests etc for my piece of mind, but my cert will reflect the fact testing was stopped due to incomplete earthing.

if you are happy with an incomplete cpc on a ring perhaps you should also test your Ze with the main bonds in place, if Ze is not available maybe the MEBs will make it ok.

 

[kme]

Agree mate - that is the point I was making.

Earth end-to-end is done first (continuity of protective conductor??)

At that point, I would generally find / rectify fault - if you can`t find this issue easily, you should think about a different career, TBH

 

[SparkJ]

I am getting Zs by taking a reading at every socket as you say. I can't get a figure for R1 + R2. So I can't make a relationship between Zs and R1 + R2 in this instance. But there is still an earth fault path at every socket one way or other along the ring. And the RCD is working fine.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 10:29 ---------- Previous post was made at 10:17 ----------

Thanks to all who have responded

 

[Doc Hudson]

I am getting Zs by taking a reading at every socket as you say. I can't get a figure for R1 + R2. So I can't make a relationship between Zs and R1 + R2 in this instance. But there is still an earth fault path at every socket one way or other along the ring. And the RCD is working fine.---------- Post Auto-Merged at 10:29 ---------- Previous post was made at 10:17 ----------

Thanks to all who have responded

How many sockets are there? Have you opened them all up to check its not just a broken or lose connection in the back of a socket? Or have you established between which sockets the break occurs? I would have though in an average domestic property it wouldn't take long to do a quick open up inspection of each socket.

Doc H.

 

[sellers]

take an r2 reading at every socket then investigate the 2 highest reading sockets and cable in between them. Re-connect, make brew, drink brew, then off home to watch coach trip.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

take an r2 reading at every socket then investigate the 2 highest reading sockets and cable in between them. Re-connect, make brew, drink brew, EAT BISCUIT/CAKE/BACON BUTTIE** then off home to watch coach trip.

{**delete as appropriate}

Correction in RED!!!!!

headbang :red card

You'll have Steps calling you a 5DW if you miss out basics like that again!!!

:slap :slap:slap

 

[Phoenix]

I wouldn't code it as a 3 for the simple reason that on the whole the clients look through the report and pick out the code 1 and 2s to get done, and will overlook code 3s along with the code 4s, so in my book broken rings, low IR, etc goes down as code 2

As to fixing it there and then, unlikely unless it happens to be one of the sockets I open for a visual by chance... its hard enough getting them to let me shut the board off long enough to sample the rings for end-end and megger it to earth!... if I started fault finding while I was at it they'd start getting really upset

I just hope its not me who goes back to rectify the fully loaded 12way TPN board thats down to earth

 

[kme]

if I started fault finding while I was at it they'd start getting really upset

So... you`ve isolated a circuit- determined it is faulty, and happily just re-energise it for continued use in its faulty state?

At a minimum, I`d drop the OCPD to a 20A as a temp. solution.

KME

 

[sellers]

TBH kme, I would and do, we don't have the right to disconnect peoples circuits if they are dangerous and a PIR is there to find any faults that exist not to fix them.

If I find a fault on a PIR I will note it down as you should and not really delve into finding it unless it stares me in the face. Here in Blackpool, not sure how it is elsewhere but when quoting for a PIR you just can't win due to people not doing them thoroughly enough. So I can't afford to spend any time doing something I'm not being paid for.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

if I started fault finding while I was at it they'd start getting really upset

erm...

1/ Customer getting upset because you are investigating the condition of their installation?

Bet they must be sobbing their eye out asking for a PIR in the first place!!!!!

2/ Hardly fault finding..

Not much different to sampling the installation and where anomalies are found the sampling rate is increased..

as per GN3?

IMHO any decent electrician would include times and cost for these likely problems to be encountered.

To expect a PIR to be all good and sound with minimal work investigation is a little naive.

and if thats how the job is costed no wonder you don't want to carry out a few basic tests

either customer Wants a PIR or they don't..

If they do..

do a decent one not a half hearted effort.

 

[Manator]

I almost always carry out Zs tests first on any PIR, that is after I have completed a visual inspection. Any code 1's that I find on the visual I get the client to approve any further testing or terminate the test until at least those I have identified have been corrected. When doing any PIR you have to agree with the client the limit of this test which could be as low as 25% of the installation, if when testing that 25% you find faults that warrant further testing to determine the extent of those faults, this should be done. I have said many times before the biggest failure I see with most PIR certificates is the wrong codes used for the faults found.

The fact that the RCD operates in the given time suggests there is at least an earth, the Ra or the Ze at the board along with the Zs readings can be used to determine the R1+R2, if I was faced with any problem like this I would carry out more tests to verify the circuit, only then would I be happy to renergise. Tricky things are PIR's, reconnecting a faulty circuit could leave you open to a civil action.