earth point / Suppliers Earthing conductor on a TNS installation

[OnOff]

Had a cracked head on a TN-S.  Main problem seemed to be no mechanical protection against the Hoover, push chairs and associated tat chucked under the stairs over the years! 





Rang the DNO.  Kindly sent two young lads out working for a major contractor subbing to the DNO.

They fitted a new head, the type with provision for two wire seals. 



Pity they didn't have any seals with them! Really I should have grassed the useless pair up. 

 

[kerching]

I would have grassed them up for leaving so much sheathing removed on the neutral

Never seen that type of head around here

 

[OnOff]

I would have grassed them up for leaving so much sheathing removed on the neutral

Never seen that type of head around here

I'm not saying Amelie paid a visit to tidy things up and add some generic seals but as I imagine the fuse carrier would have required so little effort to remove that a small child could have done so it would have been rude not to! 

I've a sneaking suspicion I came up with Amelie The Seal Fairy from one of my daughter's books years ago?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Gentlemen, I am new here, I was a member of the local Electrician forum a few years back. I am a 75-year-old Electrician, I have worked in the electro-mechanical and electronic industry, I have the 238001 and 239101 city & Guilds and I have been service engineer, service manager, production and electronics manager since 1970 and electrician since 1993.

My topic is:

What would you do, if you find that in a TN-S system the earth clamp on the supplier’s mains armoured cable providing the earth conductor to the installation, has been placed on top of the insulating cloth. Have you seen this? of course we all have.

I always check the Ze and whether it is or not okay (in this case it was not), I put a new earth clamp on a bare part of the mains cable, on the lead, near the head.

Am I right or wrong?

In the case I am referring to, I attempted to loosen-up the clamp to be able to remove it, but my screwdriver when thru the armoured cable like a knife on butter and the obvious happened, a little explosion.

The lead was damaged, was wafer thin, the cloth was covering the damaged area and the clamp was placed exactly over it.

The supplier complained I was negligent, and send me an invoice of £1473.10

Would you fight it? Or put it down to experience and never do it again.

If you decide to fight it how would you go about it.

I have never been a member of any association.

Any suggestions or criticisms will be welcomed. I have  taken pictures if you want to see them.

Thank you.

Don't think I'd be referring to a Lead Sheathed cable as an armoured cable??

Two very different beasts IMHO!

Put it down to experience??????   erm..  I don't think anyone with "experience would have done what you did???

Put it down to incompetence may be???

Supplier thought you were negligent....   YES 100% right you were...

Pay up and be thankful you got off lightly IMHO!

You mention some C&G qualifications... I can't believe anyone  who has some formal electrical training is not aware of where legal boundaries and responsibilities fall within an electrical installation?

The whole situation sounds more like a "Bodgeit & Scarper" job rather than an "Old Time Qualified & Experienced Electrician".

I would be very interested to know what grounds you think you have to fight it????

opcorn Guinness :mellow:

 

[apprentice87]

Don't think I'd be referring to a Lead Sheathed cable as an armoured cable??

And why not???

PILCSWA

Paper insulated, lead covered, steel wire armour...

john..

 

[Geoff1946]

Paper insulated, lead covered, steel wire armour...

john..

Is that old lead sheathed stuff in the distribution network really paper insulated?  I've always imagined it to be rubber. 

 

[apprentice87]

Yes, it is definitely paper. I have seen them unwrap the cables in the ground. It is amazing to see cables that are 80 odd years old, but when they get inside them, they are like brand new. The paper is like, well, oily paper!! It looks exactly like flypaper.

So i have been told, the vast majority of faults are caused be the use of the cheapo aluminium crappy cables installed in the last 30 years.

So far as i know the only reason they have problems with the old cables is that the cast iron joint boxes rust and the water gets in. The cables are last forever type things..

john..

 

[kerching]

Yep. Oil impregnated paper!

a sort of cross between fly paper and that stuff that decent tools and drills used to come wrapped in

we used to make a little wooden handle/winder/jig type affair to make small rolls of the new stuff from the BIG supplied rolls. This was to be wrapped over the 'hot leaded' core joint and tied on with string...I jest you not! Sweedie Pie will know.

binned it all decades ago.....all done ( mainly) with fancy scotchlocks now

 

[Tony S]

And why not???

PILCSWA

Paper insulated, lead covered, steel wire armour...

john..

Depending on the age of the cable it could be:

PILC with tarred jute serving

PILC-TA tape armour with tarred jute serving

PILC-SWA single wire armour with tarred jute serving

PILC-SWA single wire armour with tarred hessian serving

PILC-DWA double wire armour with tarred hessian serving

 

[Tony S]

Is that old lead sheathed stuff in the distribution network really paper insulated?  I've always imagined it to be rubber. 

Household lead sheathed cable was rubber insulation, in distribution the insulation is indeed paper.

I put a redundant 50 year old PILCL-SWA 0.3² inch feeder cable back in to service 25+ years ago. 75 years on its still there and still live.

0.3² inch is just a tad larger than 195mm² and a sod to get in to modern compression lugs on without resorting to a hammer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLvj-PvPPZI

 

[kerching]

Household lead sheathed cable was rubber insulation

Around here all the old ones , mine included., are oil impregnated paper

never seen a rubber one, but there again I would have no cause to really 

 

[Tony S]

Watch the YouTube link.