Earthing Systems

[apprentice87]

Not good!!!!

Has your one got the DP symbol or the SP one??

john..

 

[Lurch]

Not good!!!!

How so?

 

[Rob_the_rich]

pdennis in the iet forum http://www.theiet.org/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=205&threadid=12522 says that the enclosure is ESi4 if that is any help

It is odd having SP legend on the switch. originally I thought half of it had been erased, the ink is a bit faded. But the second looks more defined.

 

[Lurch]

It is odd having SP legend on the switch. originally I thought half of it had been erased, the ink is a bit faded. But the second looks more defined.

MEM did & Eaton do the same.

 

[apprentice87]

Fiils you with confidence switches with the wrong symbol on them...

john...

 

[Lurch]

Fiils you with confidence switches with the wrong symbol on them...

What is the requirement for labelling of the switches?

 

[apprentice87]

Box says one thing, switch says another....

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/252091767913-0-1/s-l1000.jpg

and another...

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z346/clicon357/176%20-%20Electrics/5800e52f-5b8c-4efd-9a75-75ca2eddf569_zpse79b66f6-1.jpg

john...

 

[Lurch]

You're being selectively obtuse/dim. You are intentionally ignoring the part numbers also stamped on the device which denote the functions as well. What do you think a device with no symbol on it does?

 

[apprentice87]

The requirement is presumably that the labelling is correct. How can something be bsen approved or CE marked [if that is required] if they cannot even get the symbols right.

john...

 

[Lurch]

The requirement is presumably that the labelling is correct.

So you have absolutely no idea then.

How can something be bsen approved or CE marked [if that is required] if they cannot even get the symbols right.

Does the BS EN in question state what is required? Oh, you've already said you don't know.

Do you know how CE marking works? If you did you would know that it does not require anyone to do anything.

 

[apprentice87]

Ok, you yourself said that the standard these things were built to is 60947-3. This applies to Sp and Dp types, so it is not a question of just the numbers on the side but ALSO the IEC symbol that describes the function

Who has no idea now then!!!

john...

 

[Lurch]

Ok, you yourself said that the standard these things were built to is 60947-3. This applies to Sp and Dp types, so it is not a question of just the numbers on the side but ALSO the IEC symbol that describes the function

So what standard exactly is it that states that a full diagrammatically correct technical schematic of the devices function should be stamped on the front?

Who has no idea now then!!!

I at no point said I did have any clue what the requirement was and have not said what should or shouldn't be on the switches as I have no idea.

 

[Essex1]

Popcorn

 

[Tony S]

Box says one thing, switch says another....

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/252091767913-0-1/s-l1000.jpg

and another...

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z346/clicon357/176%20-%20Electrics/5800e52f-5b8c-4efd-9a75-75ca2eddf569_zpse79b66f6-1.jpg

john...

What is worrying is the reference WS102TT

Need I say more?

 

[Lurch]

Need I say more?

Yes.

 

[Andy™]

Ok, you yourself said that the standard these things were built to is 60947-3. This applies to Sp and Dp types, so it is not a question of just the numbers on the side but ALSO the IEC symbol that describes the function

Who has no idea now then!!!

john...

had a look though the ones i have. some show DP switching, most show SP switching, but they are all DP

all i can think of is they changed the design / marking etc, and show the symbol on the neutral side to indicate that it does switch?

 

[Sidewinder]

...Do you know how CE marking works? If you did you would know that it does not require anyone to do anything...

Not quite true Lurch, the CE marking directive is explicit in its requirements, and the LVD in its also.

So there are things that the manufacturer has to do to meet the requirements of the law to ensure that th produt is legal for sale.

Remembering that to CE mark a product against say the LVD when it does not comply, is a criminal offence.

 

[apprentice87]

Hi Lurch,

It is all a bit beyond me, but i would think that correct IEC marking is VERY important as otherwise how you supposed to know what terminal does what and what the function of anything is?? I know it does not apply really to these things, but IEC symbols and numbers all mean something. It is the numbers on a switching device, say a relay or contactor that tell you which terminals are part of a "pair" if you like, and what their function is, NO or NC for instance, which side is "line" side. which side is "load" side and a whole lot more.

If i bought stuff that was not properly marked, the supplier would be getting it straight back.

I think what Tony is getting at when he says "What is worrying is the reference WS102TT " Is the "TT" bit could well be taken as alluding to the fact that the switch is intended to be used as an isolator on a TT system, despite the fact that it is marked as having a solid linked neutral. Let me put it like this. If i were doing an EICR [which i do not] and i came across a TT installation with an isolator marked up as being a single pole one, it would be getting a C2 for a certainty..

It is not for me to be guessing or testing the switch function....

john..

 

[Lurch]

Not quite true Lurch, the CE marking directive is explicit in its requirements, and the LVD in its also.

So there are things that the manufacturer has to do to meet the requirements of the law to ensure that th produt is legal for sale.

Remembering that to CE mark a product against say the LVD when it does not comply, is a criminal offence.

Yeah, what I meant was that the CE directive doesn't explicitly state the technical requirements of the devices that will be CE marked directly.

It is all a bit beyond me, but i would think that correct IEC marking is VERY important as otherwise how you supposed to know what terminal does what and what the function of anything is?? I know it does not apply really to these things, but IEC symbols and numbers all mean something. It is the numbers on a switching device, say a relay or contactor that tell you which terminals are part of a "pair" if you like, and what their function is, NO or NC for instance, which side is "line" side. which side is "load" side and a whole lot more.

I am not disagreeing with this, but what is this "correct coding" that you speak of specifically? What exactly should be marked on these switches? What is missing? Do not start guessing again and making things up.

If i bought stuff that was not properly marked, the supplier would be getting it straight back.

But what is not marked correctly? Can you tell me what should be marked and with what? So far you have only spouting complete made up personal opinion and tried to call it a fact, and also a BS EN standard.

I think what Tony is getting at when he says "What is worrying is the reference WS102TT " Is the "TT" bit could well be taken as alluding to the fact that the switch is intended to be used as an isolator on a TT system, despite the fact that it is marked as having a solid linked neutral. Let me put it like this. If i were doing an EICR [which i do not] and i came across a TT installation with an isolator marked up as being a single pole one, it would be getting a C2 for a certainty..

It is not for me to be guessing or testing the switch function....

If it is a single pole switch it isn't an isolator. What is a WS102TT? What exactly says it is or isn't SP or DP? You cannot randomly issue codings based on guesswork, that is what the cowboys do. If you are doing an EICR you are testing the installation, not just wandering round looking at random parts of the installation and blindly issuing random codings on things.

 

[Sidewinder]

Marking requirements are specified in EN 60947-1 & -3, both of which are harmonised & therefore offer a presumption of conformity with in this case the LVD allowing the manufacturer to CE mark to the LVD without further work.