EICR - C2 for rocker type switch in bathroom for extractor fan isolation

[rogerk101]

I have just had a mandatory EICR done for a rental property.

The electrician issued a C2 for a rocker type fan isolation switch mounted in the ceiling at 2.5m above the floor and 2m away from the basin tap, which is the closest 'wet component'.

He wanted to see a pull switch instead.

When I asked him which regulation this was contravening he was unable to quote one, but said the bathroom COULD get steamy and someone COULD get electrocuted by using the rocker switch, so he considered it UNSAFE, requiring repair before the property is considered rentable.

Does this sound reasonable?

Can anyone point me to any regulation that could be used to justify his decision?

 

[ProDave]

Ask him to show you where you can get a 3 pole pull cord isolator from.

Better still ask him to show you the reg saying you MUST have a fan isolator.  I have yet to find it so please tell me when you know.

 

[Murdoch]

There is no regulation for inclusion of a fan isolation switch and I've seen a plate type switch mounted on the ceiling on many occasions - never commented on them if they are outside zones 

 

[Phoenix]

Pull cord fan isolators are available https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/BG804.html  but its probably unlikely that the OP requires one.

Basins don't affect zoning, only baths and showerers do. Its likely that its above zones, as anything above 2.25m is likely to be, also if its more.

The question of 'is this suitable for this particular location' is a valid line to be thinking along, but hes likely reached a very cautious outcome, if it was directly above the shower, then even if it was above the zoning then I'd be thinking its not suitable for the area, but in that case the answer would be to relocate it, there wouldn't be much point in changing it to a pull cord one.

A fan isolator would generally be operated infrequenctly, normally when de-fluffing the fan from time to time, I beleive ProDave is against them in rental properties because his tennants kept turning it off and then complained of mouldiness!

As an ultimate sanity test....take the calvin harris approach....... was it acceptable in the 80s?.... back then the 15th edition regulations were current, there were very few RCDs to protect folk if it went wrong, as long as it wasnt reachable when standing in the bath or shower then it wasn't a problem

 

[kerching]

was it acceptable in the 80s?.... back then the 15th edition regulations were current, there were very few RCDs to protect folk if it went wrong, as long as it wasnt reachable when standing in the bath or shower then it wasn't a problem

My old NIC Ae was a big 6'3" ignorant git

said he could reach the bathroom light if he stood on the edge of the bath

I explained to him that he was a tw@ and the edge of the bath was not classed as a "normally used/accessible area"

it didn't end well

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

In order to get an electric shock a circuit MUST be completed..  so IF..

and its a BIG IF..   

if this switch was somehow live and someone did touch it...

Where is the source of the earth potential that you can also touch at the same time to complete the circuit,

allowing a shock current to flow?

NO circuit...  NO shock...

(but of course even if there was a shock current, the bathroom RCD protection should disconnect the supply anyway!)

ALSO...   Is the switch plastic in construction..

ie.  No exposed conductive parts.. ? 

If the room had got so steamy for moisture to track between the internal electrical components of the switch..

to the outer plastic surface and provide a significant danger..

I would think the whole room would be having serious mould  problems..

and electric shock would be the least of your worries.

There's probably just as much risk of steam in kitchens next to a hob with pans of water boiling away whilst cooking your dinner!!!

So any light fittings/sockets etc near the hob could also kill you if apply this logic!

There is NO immediate danger (C1).

Nor is there any potential danger (C2).

Possibly you could argued that it could be improved (C3).  

But personally I think the blokes an Idjut..

The switch it outside of the zones.. 

risk is minimal IMHO..

:C     

 

[Phoenix]

My old NIC Ae was a big 6'3" ignorant git

said he could reach the bathroom light if he stood on the edge of the bath

I explained to him that he was a tw@ and the edge of the bath was not classed as a "normally used/accessible area"

it didn't end well

Must have been a high ceiling then!, I'm 6'4" and most light fittings in domestic I don't need to mess around with steps for. Comes in handy when you get sent on subbed out jobs for the council to bathroom light not working in some hell hole....go in there with a LED conversion 2D lamp and a couple of wagos in pocket, and you are out of there before you have properly registered how bad it is!

 

[binky]

this would be more likely tofail under 'suitability for the environment' ie it isn't designed to get damp / steamy. 

As for needing a fan isolator, I think that's under building regs rather than BS7671? 

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

this would be more likely tofail under 'suitability for the environment' ie it isn't designed to get damp / steamy. 

As for needing a fan isolator, I think that's under building regs rather than BS7671? 

So how do you know what items are suitable for "Steam"

when there is no code for Steam?

i.e.

Second character of the IP ratings relates to water..

so what should we be looking for looking for...

when the options go from dripping water to constant immersion..?

X-Not tested

0-Not protected

1-Dripping water

2-Dripping water tilted at 15°

3-Spraying water

4-Splashing of water

5-Water jets

6-Powerful water jets

7-Immersion up to 1 M

8-Continues immersion, 1 M or more

In reality you'd probably have to hold a wallpaper steamer directly over the switch to cause any significant failure.. 

A ceiling mounted switch doesn't get a fat lot water dipping onto it.. 

as gravity tends to stop water going upward into the switch mechanism..

and a normal bath or shower doesn't generally leave a whole bathroom ceiling covered in water droplets caused by steam..

otherwise you would also have major failures from internal components of shaver sockets, electric showers, or the cord-pull ceiling switch for the light or shower,

and dripping water all over the floor coverings & bathroom cabinets, electric toothbrush, towels, loo rolls etc.. etc.. 

Remember we are talking about a bath or shower room, Not a sauna..  

IMHO unless the ceiling is being regularly jet-washed down the problem is another one of those electricians myths of a non-existent problem. 

:C

 

[rogerk101]

Many thanks to all of you for confirming my gut feel.

I had a different spark do an EICR in my own house and he never commented about any of the 3 extractor fan isolating rocker switches I have in the 3 bathrooms in my house.

They are all good quality plastic components with no exposed metal part, and all mounted far away from the wet areas, usually just to one side of the doorway into the bathroom.

I will definitely be challenging him on this, as I don't believe it warrants a C2.

 

[binky]

So how do you know what items are suitable for "Steam"

when there is no code for Steam?

i.e.

Second character of the IP ratings relates to water..

so what should we be looking for looking for...

when the options go from dripping water to constant immersion..?

X-Not tested

0-Not protected

1-Dripping water

2-Dripping water tilted at 15°

3-Spraying water

4-Splashing of water

5-Water jets

6-Powerful water jets

7-Immersion up to 1 M

8-Continues immersion, 1 M or more

In reality you'd probably have to hold a wallpaper steamer directly over the switch to cause any significant failure.. 

A ceiling mounted switch doesn't get a fat lot water dipping onto it.. 

as gravity tends to stop water going upward into the switch mechanism..

and a normal bath or shower doesn't generally leave a whole bathroom ceiling covered in water droplets caused by steam..

otherwise you would also have major failures from internal components of shaver sockets, electric showers, or the cord-pull ceiling switch for the light or shower,

and dripping water all over the floor coverings & bathroom cabinets, electric toothbrush, towels, loo rolls etc.. etc.. 

Remember we are talking about a bath or shower room, Not a sauna..  

IMHO unless the ceiling is being regularly jet-washed down the problem is another one of those electricians myths of a non-existent problem. 

:C

alright, don't go getting all predantic on me, I was just saying  :^O  It was only about 18 years ago we stopped putting pendant drops in bathrooms, and I never ever saw one of those rusted up or damp inside. Did an EICR the other day, old halogen ceiling light in bathroom, glass panel over front but open sides, so nothing to really stop steam getting into the electrics - nothing rusty in their either. Which reminds me I looked up guidance notes on that - C3.