Electrical Installation Certificate / Period Inspection

[MajorOak]

Hi

I changed and relocated a consumer unit about 6 months ago for a client. Moved it from the garage and relocated it into the house, so that they could go ahead and convert the garage into a new room.

I did my usual routine, periodic inspection report first, everything checked out fine, so I changed and relocated the consumer unit, issuing the client with an installation certificate. Job done!!

The building work has now been completed but the builder doing the work extended the ring in the garage (now the new room in the house)

The building inspector will not sign the building off until a certificate has been issued for the new work i.e. the extension of the existing ring.

Do I inspect and test the work the builder has done and if I am happy then issue an Electrical Installation Certificate for the work, but this will be passing the work off as my own or do I issue a Periodic Inspection Report just for the new extended ring.

Will a Periodic Inspection Report on the one circuit satisfy the building inspector?

Thanks in advance

 

[Zeespark]

PIR only and I would ask the LABC if they would accept it. If they don't, your customer may be up the swanny.

AndyGuinness

 

[NozSpark]

Whatever you do do not sign this off with an EIC

If it was me I'd tell the client that you cannot sign this part of the job off as you are only allowed to sign off your own work.. I'd also tell them that an addition to a circuit is not notifiable,,, unless this new room is a kitchen or bathroom that is

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

HiI changed and relocated a consumer unit about 6 months ago for a client. Moved it from the garage and relocated it into the house, so that they could go ahead and convert the garage into a new room.

I did my usual routine, periodic inspection report first, everything checked out fine, so I changed and relocated the consumer unit, issuing the client with an installation certificate. Job done!!

The building work has now been completed but the builder doing the work extended the ring in the garage (now the new room in the house)

The building inspector will not sign the building off until a certificate has been issued for the new work i.e. the extension of the existing ring.

Do I inspect and test the work the builder has done and if I am happy then issue an Electrical Installation Certificate for the work, but this will be passing the work off as my own or do I issue a Periodic Inspection Report just for the new extended ring.

Will a Periodic Inspection Report on the one circuit satisfy the building inspector?

Thanks in advance

The bit highlighted blue is irrelevant to this question..

Whatever work may or may not have been carried out and certified prior to any notifiable alterations carries no bearing on what certificates and or notification is required for the newer work.

So lets look at the 'red' bits and consider the facts:-

1/ Part P building regulations has been applicable since 1 Jan 2005..

Any builder worth his salt will be aware of ALL regulations he has to meet to complete his building work. Structure, Ventilation, Thermal, Windows.. and ELECTRICITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2/ Any builders choosing to ignore established legal obligations, procedures and requirements should be treated with up most caution and not trusted as they could be arriving on horseback!!

3/ Any electrician who is qualified to the recognised C&G electrical qualifications and able to work on their own will be aware of the standard model form certificates in BS7671 AND the content of the declarations that you sign on the individual certificates.

4/ Any electrician who is a member of one of the recognised competent person schemes will have a copy of Approved document P AND will be aware of pages 10 - 12 where the various options for notifying work are described.

5/ Most competent person schemes terms and conditions, (also often on their websites) clearly state what their members are permitted to notify and/or who's work they can sign off.

6/ If the builder has clipped everything on the surface you can probably verify cable routes.. if any cables are concealled...?

well I don't think I could verify anything..

7/ You only do what you customer has asked you to do...

Your customer will need to verify with LABC what they want to sign the job off...

And if you can provide any service to achieve this objective then you can proceed!

8/ If the LABC will not accept anything from a third party..

then its no good you wasting your time or money sorting out someone else's problems and c0ckups!!

9/ I think you knew all this anyway!!

Personally I wouldn't get involved with taking liability for other persons work by leaving paper trails with my name on it!

10/ If the builder has messed up..

he should be ringing round to get it sorted with the LABC..

They may only accept one of their own sub-contracted electricians?

:C

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 19:13 ---------- Previous post was made at 19:09 ----------

Whatever you do do not sign this off with an EICIf it was me I'd tell the client that you cannot sign this part of the job off as you are only allowed to sign off your own work.. I'd also tell them that an addition to a circuit is not notifiable,,, unless this new room is a kitchen or bathroom that is

The LABC may treat ALL work in a new extension as needing confirmation that it complies with BS7671?

Could be argued bother ways IMHO..

But then again...

Nowadays I would expect EVERY builder to be aware of Part P..

and best just to assume that it need certification?

I bet they don't forget any GAS or FENSA paperwork?

 

[NozSpark]

I just wonder if the builder had applied for any BC notification regarding change of use or anything else

 

[Manator]

This is not your problem, its the builder who has done a cut price job, he is the one who should be made to sign off any electrical works.

This is why the electrical industry is almost on its knees, begging position, waiting for the LABC,s to get tough, prosecute, and get it in the press for all to see.

 

[Zeespark]

The only issue with that Manator is the fact that most LABC's want to stay as far away from Part P as possible, so if they are ostrich's with their heads buried in the sand, what hope is there of prosecutions under Part P?

AndyGuinness

 

[Manator]

The only issue with that Manator is the fact that most LABC's want to stay as far away from Part P as possible, so if they are ostrich's with their heads buried in the sand, what hope is there of prosecutions under Part P?AndyGuinness

Unfortunately very little chance, I can not go into detail but Admin knows I have had some direct input into the legal debate, whilst published very little has been done or said since, however I am still fighting the cause for change.

 

[Zeespark]

My hat goes off to you Manator, just need a few thousand more like you it seems, rather than a few.

AndyGuinness

 

[MajorOak]

Thank you all for your advice.

I can't really leave them hanging, yes they should have had the job done by a professional ME!! But at the end of the day it's about safety, I will go and do a periodic on the circuit and make sure the builder has left them in a safe situation, it would be a bit of a tragedy if I had the chance to do something and didn't.

I will let them know my thoughts and the regulations and ask for the builders name, so I can write and point out Part P of the "Building Regulations" to them and also to call me next time they want any electrics doing, so they don't leave their customer/s in the same situation again!

 

[Zeespark]

Just tell them that it is actually down to themselves to check that the electrics are Part P compliant, not the builder - they would be held accountable, not the builder.

AndyGuinness

 

[MajorOak]

Really? If a builder says that he can do the work as part of the extension, the house owner is going to say yes please. The vast majority of people don't know about the building regs and quite a few more don't want to know, that's why they place the trust in a builder. I think as Manator and special location said, the industry wants a massive kick up the arse regarding Part P, at the moment the LABC are just playing at it!! It needs to be licensed and only a licensed sparks, i.e. registered with or a member of one of the recognised competent person schemes, should do the work, we don't want any more expense!!

The only way this will happen if more people are killed through dodgy electrics but unlike gas the elastic trickery does not leak out, it just waits!!

 

[Zeespark]

The builder can do the work if i) He/She arranges for the LABC to check the electrical first fix ii) if the builder employs a Part P registered electrician, no other way around it otherwise.

AndyGuinness

 

[Doc Hudson]

I thing many builders are intentionally ignorant, trying to pull a fast one, they don't want to pay for other professional trades when they think they are OK at doing the job. All builders will have regular contact with various LABC's and will be well aware of what is needed to get a Job signed off.

Doc H.

 

[Zeespark]

The best way to get a law like Part P changed is to shame its inadequacies, not ignore it My opinion.

AndyGuinness

 

[PC Electrics]

Just tell them that it is actually down to themselves to check that the electrics are Part P compliant, not the builder - they would be held accountable, not the builder.AndyGuinness

Yes, really.

This applies to ALL building regulations - the homeowner is responsible for ensuring compliance. It is the homeowner who will be in hot water with planning / LABC if they are not.

The homeowner may have a legal case against the builder if all were not how it should be, but this would depend upon the contract that exists between each party.

 

[batty]

Some people want a cheap job so they pay for a cheaper builder who cuts corners by not employing a proper tradesman to do the job properly. I don't think this will ever change unless people are prosecuted for breaking the so called law.

 

[kme]

And therein lies one of the biggest problems with part pea......If the contractor hasn`t notified, the only person who can officially make a complaint is the householder.........who also happens to be liable.......so they just won`t. TBH - would you?

We all know the problems inherent within the legislation - we`ve discussed `em enough times. Until the "powers that be" decide to rehash `em (not likely currently - they`re still creating revenue for the g`ment; what do they care about effectiveness?)

 

[Manator]

The recent survey forms most of you filled in make for some interesting reading, again a high percentage of people voiced concerns over the enforcement of the regulations, in principle the majority wanted Part P to stay, but wanted steps taken to improve its profile.

This is the first time a survey has been done, and I am sure the findings will be taken seriously.