Garage Pits: General Installation Query

[husky2013]

Hello Girlies Guys and ummm Steps hehe

i thank steps greatly for the advice given to begin with, much help scoobs on way matey!

Now, in conjunction with the advice steps has given me, i am after some more advice haha!

Jon (streetlighter) has been working in garage pits today at a vehicle maint unit, and in the pits are standard polycarb fluo fittings, and light guage plastic conduit., oil is stored in these pits, along with diesel... and streetlighter is of the opinion, and opinion backed up by steps, that the fittings in the pits need to be IS Rated, but company dragging feet saying just re fix them to the pit. the fittings are all split and the mechanics etc have been using them as steps down into the pit and so on. so they are not in a good condition.

alongside this, there are also other issues in the depot that im sure u will see in the pics:

Thnx in advance for any advice for streety guys,

 

[M107]

In our pits (before they were filled in) the light fittings had to be IS & caged, no 110v outlets 24v only & all conductors enclosed in galve tube........and storage of combustables & flammable petrolium products is a no no........ Having recently spoken to our transport manager about the one remaining pit we have( but are not allowed to use)I'm sure he said access/exit to the pit has to be from bothends now aswell & via steps not ladders, the vehicle can not cover the whole pit end to end.......basically he said the regulations on pits was now aright royal pain, hence why we can not use our last one.

 

[kme]

Yup - they`re classed as ex areas - you MUST be covered for hazardous area work to do anything in them, afaiaa.

Agree with my esteemed colleague on this.

 

[Sidewinder]

^As KME, and he knew I would say this as we have both worked on this area in the past.

Any work in automotive pits is EX i.e. hazardous area, unless the client states in writing the opposite.

We can't zone areas under ATEX, only the client can.

TO work in ATEX areas you need additional training, competence, and INSURANCE to cover you.

You need to check DSEAR.

 

[steptoe]

see,

I told you all this at the start!

I just didnt have the details, :|

 

[binky]

You wouldn't think there are so many regs for something that seems so simple. But any garage bod should know that vapour from fuel is heavier than air and storing it in pit constitutes an explosive hazard.

 

[Apache]

You wouldn't think there are so many regs for something that seems so simple. But any garage bod should know that vapour from fuel is heavier than air and storing it in pit constitutes an explosive hazard.

Neither diesel nor oil should explode. You can put out a fire with a bucket of diesel.

 

[roys]

, that the fittings in the pits need to be IS Rated, [Thnx in advance for any advice for streety guys,

Not trying to be a smart a$$ or pedantic honestly, but just so that other people don't get confused when reading this thread from a search or similar, I would doubt that the light fittings would be IS rated as that stands for Intrinsically Safe and one of the many stipulations for IS is that it's power rating is below 20 micro Joules, this is so that the energy level is so low that any spark caused will not be strong enough to ignite an explosive atmosphere. So the only likely type of light that could be powered would be a LED but there is a whole lot more to IS than that.

The Ex rating that would be likely used for this application would be:

Exd which is flameproof so any explosion is contained within the fitting without transmitting it to the outside atmosphere, these tend to be by design big heavy fittings as they must contain the explosion. Very Expensive

ExN which is loosely called 'non incendive', these tend to look like very good quality fittings, with IP rating of 54 and other subtle differences to cause 'restricted breathing' of the light fitting. These are much cheaper than the Exd fittings, but still more expensive than a standard fitting, and is the type likely to be used in a garage pit.

There is other types of Ex protection but these are the likely two for light fittings.

As other people have mentioned this area should be classified by the owner of the commercial property and persons working on the electrics should be suitably qualified for working on Electrical Apparatus in Hazardous Areas usualy called a CompEx certificate.

If people wish to know more about Ex concepts I could speak to admin as I have the notes from a one day course I use to delivery to apprentices on the subject and I could maybe get it uploaded, I have in the past e-mailed it to some members of this forum.

Hope this helps and again sorry for being pedantic.

 

[Apache]

If people wish to know more about Ex concepts I could speak to admin as I have the notes from a one day course I use to delivery to apprentices on the subject and I could maybe get it uploaded, I have in the past e-mailed it to some members of this forum.

It's a very generous offer, but it could land the forum in trouble for distributing someone else's intellectual property.

 

[remustered]

In garage enviroment mere petrol and diesel are the least of your hazards....gases, calor,butane,acetylene,o2,assorted lubes and chemicals. Any enclosed pit/sump/bund that can pool invisible heavier than air gases is both a suffocation and fire hazard...adding a trigger via dodgy electrics is asking for trouble.

 

[roys]

It's a very generous offer, but it could land the forum in trouble for distributing someone else's intellectual property.

But I wrote it

 

[a3]

But I wrote it

Thankyou for the offer Roy's, please check your PMs

 

[husky2013]

Hey Guys,

streety is more then competant (it is not me carrying out the work)

streety is compex certified and so on.

and he has also worked around petro chem sites before i.e shell/stanlow

i was not aware of the Ex formula as we have not covered petro chem at college yet, and so on, and we had only covered IS ratings to a degree!

hence my limited knowledge and asking for more info that i was able to relay to streety at the time whom had asked me to check as to wether IS ratings where applicable or not!

thanks all for ur help and taking time to explain things a bit further for me

ya all stars x

 

[streetlighter]

Just to clarify I'm NOT Compex certified. Yes I've worked on the Shell sites at stanlow and tranmere but at all times was supervised by one of the Electricians on site who was fully certified.

Yes I fitted flameproof glands onto lead screened SWA cable whilst on site but they where all checked over by an inspector.

Really enjoyed working on the Stanlow site very interesting place to work, would love to do the Compex training too.

 

[Sidewinder]

Nicely, in which case streety, are you OK to be doing an automotive pit which should be zoned under DSEAR?

Does your insurance cover you for DSEAR zoned areas?

 

[streetlighter]

I'm not doing this work for my business I have a day job for a highway lighting firm and this work is in the vehicle maintenance workshop in the council depot.

I'm not happy with the install at all

 

[Bacon]

These are some pics of a job i did onj a HGV garage all EXP fitting and lights.

All glands are 4 part with a plastic washer at the start of the gland,

 

[husky2013]

apologies for the mix up with compex thing, i got the wrong qualification - oops

 

[Sidewinder]

Ah!

Nothing new in Council work being CARP as it is most often selected on price!

Just been behind a council contractor that has wired the internal wiring in a lather to the main 3ph motor in 3 core flex, brown, blue & G/Y, G/Y over taped grey and used as a phase conductor, ordinary 3 core pvc/pvc flex too.

No earth wire to the motor, motor moves for belt tension so all earthing relies upon the motor mounting plate pivot.

The incoming supply from the 6491X terminated in a conduit box fixed to the machine to the machine control is 3C & cpc flat twin carrying the 3 phases & earth.

In a school on a machine that pupils use, 400V control, and no cpc in, or earthing of the braid, in the external SY to the floor mounted kick stop either.

Shocking, or hopefully NOT!

So streety, sorry for the doubting.

If the client has not zoned the area and you are working to instructions, you have made your concerns known, then you have done all you can.

Shame is the holders of the purse strings won't be the ones that get hurt if something goes wrong!

 

[streetlighter]

I've told them quite a few times about these lights but the manager of the workshop is a complete ******** !

Refixed them two years ago but they use them as a step into/out of the pit. Completely **** poor install needs ripping out and done properly with right materials.

The firm I work for as a day job are only NICEIC registered for highway lighting installations