General question

[Traineeboy]

I’m new here and a fairly new apprentice. Want to learn and make the most of this lock down. I do have a general question I would like you thoughts on. So far on here people have been helpful and pointed me in the right direction of what I need to touch up on in terms of my knowledge. However so far I have the sense in the real world that the electricians I have been in contact with come across like they don’t want me to learn. They also are reluctant to help and when I ask a question they make me seem so small by saying if you don’t know the answer then you shouldn’t be doing electrics. I don’t me a simple thing like what colour is the Neutral wire lol but some much more in depth questions.  I am only 4 months in into a 4 year course. I do wonder if some sparks are purposefully trying to be discouraging as I could be seen as a threat ? What are you thoughts ? 

 

[roys]

I have come across people in my career that don’t like to share knowledge, they seem to have the mistaken belief that knowledge is power. As a general rule I have found that these people don’t get very far.  The more successful and higher thought of electricians tend to be a lot more open and sharing with their knowledge.

I would never hold back with knowledge and spent a lot of time with apprentices passing knowledge on, this stood me in good stead and paid dividends in the future.

It is unfortunate if you have a lot of the “knowledge is power” people about you, hopefully you will find a good un to guide you. You are also at the stage where you realise that there is lots to learn, again if it is any consolation you should be learning throughout your career.

Good luck, and keep asking on here with questions that are playing on your mind.

 

[Murdoch]

The best place for you to learn is with your employer on the job. 

Whilst BS 7671 covers the rules for new installations, in the "field" we spend our time looking at installations up to 70 years old (yes really) and also all the different types of buildings and construction.

Then there are the DIY disasters or "other" trades disasters.  I recently removed and rewired 4 new sockets installed by a plumber. At the time of his installation there was under sized main earth, not equipotential bonding and no RCD protection. In addition he'd used 1.5mm T&E on a 30A circuit, connecting "his" 4 sockets to an existing socket with a spur, so 4 cables into the connections of this socket ............

Every day is a learning day, the internet can be useful but hands on site work is worth 100 x or more what you can learn in BS7671 or n the internet

What types of work does your employer do? 

Hope this helps

 

[Geoff1946]

I’m new here and a fairly new apprentice. Want to learn and make the most of this lock down. I do have a general question I would like you thoughts on. So far on here people have been helpful and pointed me in the right direction of what I need to touch up on in terms of my knowledge. However so far I have the sense in the real world that the electricians I have been in contact with come across like they don’t want me to learn. They also are reluctant to help and when I ask a question they make me seem so small by saying if you don’t know the answer then you shouldn’t be doing electrics. I don’t me a simple thing like what colour is the Neutral wire lol but some much more in depth questions.  I am only 4 months in into a 4 year course. I do wonder if some sparks are purposefully trying to be discouraging as I could be seen as a threat ? What are you thoughts ? 

Have you considered that some may be afraid of displaying their own limitations of knowledge and understanding?

 

[kerching]

You have to remember that some ( well I am speaking from experience ) are thicker  . They don't answer the question because they can't !

just saying

 

[binky]

some times it's the way you phrase a question, aksing an opinion and giving options can get people talking, sometimes. But mostly a lot of people don't want to pass on knowledge, and to be frank, are often wrong when they do - too much opinion and BS, than actual knowledge. Read and re-read regs and guides and you will lnow more than many experienced sparks. One thing I will say about reading is ignore the On-Site guide - it's written for the ignorant and gives stupid stuff like Zs values at 80%, so is actually wrong! 

 

[Murdoch]

^^ re the On-Site Guide - oh yes I do agree.

Its those diagrams showing the tails and main earth and bonding that are nice and misleading - why do so many people think they need to upgrade the tails to 25mm when the DNO fuse is 60A or 80A - unnecessary time and money passed on to the unsuspecting client.

 

[Traineeboy]

Thanks for all you input and yes it does make sense. So basically the ones that don’t wanna help are either not very knowledgeable or arrogant and selfish or don’t wanna share their knowledge. 

 

[Murdoch]

Thanks for all you input and yes it does make sense. So basically the ones that don’t wanna help are either not very knowledgeable or arrogant and selfish or don’t wanna share their knowledge. 

Oh that's harsh

There are some that won't share information because the person asking isn't a spark and the person asking wants to know rather than employ a spark to do proper installation work ................. 

 

[NozSpark]

The other thing that you have to bear in mind is that you’re only 4 months in and could possibly be asking questions that are far beyond your current learning... and they’re just trying to slow you down a bit so that you learn things in the correct order

 

[Traineeboy]

No I know that was probably a bit harsh. Just frustrated with some of the sparks that have been harsh to me. 

The other thing that you have to bear in mind is that you’re only 4 months in and could possibly be asking questions that are far beyond your current learning... and they’re just trying to slow you down a bit so that you learn things in the correct order

Yeah that is a fair point. They just need to be clear and say that rather than fobbing me off. 

 

[Traineeboy]

I’m probably leant more on here during the lockdown in the space of a week than I have by asking sparks I’ve work with. Thanks for your honesty and points. I want to be corrected etc as I wanna learn. 

 

[binky]

I’m probably leant more on here during the lockdown in the space of a week than I have by asking sparks I’ve work with. Thanks for your honesty and points. I want to be corrected etc as I wanna learn. 

do feel free to post any questions, what we really like t do is see you post a possible answer, then we guide you through the regs and possible answers. We get lots of apprentices trying to get us to answer their homework questions for them, they don't get far unless they put some effort in. 

 

[Evans Electric]

the electricians I have been in contact with come across like they don’t want me to learn. They also are reluctant to help and when I ask a question they make me seem so small by saying if you don’t know the answer then you shouldn’t be doing electrics

I can remember many electricians I learned NOT to ask questions  of .        As I grew up a bit I realised they were tossers  and would use the exact defence method you have described .     Its the typical schoolboy defence , answer by attacking  the questioner .     " Huh !  fancy not knowing  that !! You thick  twatte "      

I eventually countered with    "I don't know that because I'm 15 yrs old ,  we don't leave school as fully trained electricians  you know "  !  

I was with a huge contracting firm   ( that big they even employed their own two cable jointers)    and remember one particular foreman  & a couple of sparks would always take the time  to answer .    In those days there were almost as many apprentices as electricians  ,    many of the other apprentices would snigger as if they knew it all ,   when I asked ,  but would then be  eagerly mopping up the answers.   Human nature I'm afraid .      Even today  there,s always someone  who knows a better route  than the one you've  just taken to get somewhere.  

In this trade you never stop learning .    As an 18 yr old apprentice I was sent to work with a spark in his 40,s  ,  a new build small  Barclays Bank  in a local  High Street .

He put me in charge of checking materials & making sure we had all we needed  from which I learned a lot in how to run a job .   

Something embarrassing cropped up ,  he kept on about wiring the main concrete stairway  , we had to do that bit in Pyro but he kept on about how could we do four two way switches ,as shown on the plans .  

I realised, being mainly industrial,  he was unaware of  intermediate switches.  

I chose to wait till the next day and said I'd looked it up in a book at home and theres these switches that cross the strappers over ,  pretending I'd never heard  of them . 

Near the end of the job  three more sparks joined us to help fit out .        After they left he said ,  " Those stairway switches .... did you already know how to do them ?" 

" Yes"       " Thanks son " he said .."For not taking the pish "