Getting my head around Victron gear #1 EasySolar

[bladerunnerpv]

Hi folks
wonder if someone could spare me a few grey cells on this please...

I'm starting to get my head around victron gear and have started with the easy solar spec for EasySolar-II 48/3000/35-32 MPPT 250/70 GX as an example

I did a forum search for easysolar but didn't spot anything

What it appears to me to do:
- PV DC -> EasySolar -> AC out to house
- PV DC -> EasySolar -> AC out to grid
- PV DC -> EasySolar -> DC out to battery
- AC (grid or generator) -> EasySolar -> DC out to battery
- AC (grid or generator) -> EasySolar -> AC out to house
- Battery DC -> EasySolar -> AC out to house
- Battery DC -> EasySolar -> AC out to grid (?)

So is EasySolar-II a DC coupled inverter ?
It seems to not mention the house consumer unit in the diagrams in the spec ?

In the data sheet
i) Inverter/Charger
this is limit for input from grid or external generator input ?

ii) Inverter
this is battery 48V input to AC output function?
for cont. output power 25degC its 3000VA / 2400W
since W = Volts * Amps why are the figures different?

iii) Charger
this is grid AC input to Battery DC output function?

iv) Charge controller
this is PV DC in to Battery DC output function

I see no AC output power rating to grid anywhere though
is it inferred from 32A (Aux output) x 230V = 7360W ?
or is it the 5500W in the inverter section ?

Taking it to be a DC coupled hybrid inverter, then if I were to put the spec into EasyPV.....

DC-coupled hybrid
============

AC Output
---------
Max AC current output : not spec'd ? 32A ?
Max AC power output of inverter : not spec'd ?

Battery
-------
Battery max charge power Watts 52.8V x 35A = 1848W ? (from "charger" section)
Battery max discharge power Watts : assume same
Charge efficiency % e.g. euro efficiency : 95 % (from "inverter"section)
Discharge Efficiency % e.g. euro efficiency : not spec'd, assume the same?
Min battery capacity kWh : not spec'd
Max battery capacity kWh : not spec'd
Max discaherge depth : not spec'd
Max no. of batteries : not spec'd, 1?

Solar MPPT Tracker
------------------
Vmpp min Volts : not spec'd
Vmpp max Volts : not spec'd
Max Voc Volts : 250 V (from "charge controller" section)
Max I Amps : 70 A (from "charge controller" section)

(Max PV input power 4000 W)

It says it uses the SmartSolar MPPT 250/70-Tr, so looking at the attached individual spec sheet for this...

- it says max 30A per MC4 connection
so surely the Max I Amps for MPPT tracker should be 30A not 70A?
- it has 2 x MPPT trackers (some other models have 3x)
- there is still no min and max Vmpp info ?

If I'm reading this correctly it has a really high start-up voltage of 245V ?



Thanks for taking a look

 

[johnb2713]

Hi folks
wonder if someone could spare me a few grey cells on this please...

I'm starting to get my head around victron gear and have started with the easy solar spec for EasySolar-II 48/3000/35-32 MPPT 250/70 GX as an example

I did a forum search for easysolar but didn't spot anything

What it appears to me to do:
- PV DC -> EasySolar -> AC out to house
- PV DC -> EasySolar -> AC out to grid
- PV DC -> EasySolar -> DC out to battery
- AC (grid or generator) -> EasySolar -> DC out to battery
- AC (grid or generator) -> EasySolar -> AC out to house
- Battery DC -> EasySolar -> AC out to house
- Battery DC -> EasySolar -> AC out to grid (?)

I would agree with your assessment

So is EasySolar-II a DC coupled inverter ?

Yes

It seems to not mention the house consumer unit in the diagrams in the spec ?

Thats not a big deal really, it shows the AC outputs, it's up to what you do with them

In the data sheet
i) Inverter/Charger
this is limit for input from grid or external generator input ?

What limit? Its AC input is:-
Input voltage range: 187-265 VAC
Input frequency: 45 – 65 Hz

Which is a really good range and would cover the use of generators that can be all over the place with regards to voltage and frequency.

ii) Inverter
this is battery 48V input to AC output function?
for cont. output power 25degC its 3000VA / 2400W
since W = Volts * Amps why are the figures different?

Watts is the real power drawn by the equipment, while volt-amps are called the “apparent power” and are the product of the voltage applied to the equipment times the current drawn by the equipment.

iii) Charger
this is grid AC input to Battery DC output function?

Yes as well as Solar in to Battery charge

iv) Charge controller
this is PV DC in to Battery DC output function

Yes all part of the charger above

I see no AC output power rating to grid anywhere though
is it inferred from 32A (Aux output) x 230V = 7360W ?
or is it the 5500W in the inverter section ?

From the data sheet
Cont. output power at 25 °C 3000 VA / 2400 W
Cont. output power at 40 °C / 55 °C 2200 W / 1700 W
Maximum apparent feed-in power 2470W / 3000 VA

Taking it to be a DC coupled hybrid inverter, then if I were to put the spec into EasyPV.....

DC-coupled hybrid
============

yes

AC Output
---------
Max AC current output : not spec'd ? 32A ?

Approx 12A

Max AC power output of inverter : not spec'd ?

2400W@25 deg C

Battery
-------
Battery max charge power Watts 52.8V x 35A = 1848W ? (from "charger" section)

yes

Battery max discharge power Watts : assume same

That depends on the battery you use

Charge efficiency % e.g. euro efficiency : 95 % (from "inverter"section)
Discharge Efficiency % e.g. euro efficiency : not spec'd, assume the same?
Min battery capacity kWh : not spec'd
Max battery capacity kWh : not spec'd
Max discaherge depth : not spec'd
Max no. of batteries : not spec'd, 1?

You need to choose your battery

Solar MPPT Tracker
------------------
Vmpp min Volts : not spec'd
Vmpp max Volts : not spec'd
Max Voc Volts : 250 V (from "charge controller" section)
Max I Amps : 70 A (from "charge controller" section)

(Max PV input power 4000 W)

All sounds about right the max and min volts should be available in the manual.

It says it uses the SmartSolar MPPT 250/70-Tr, so looking at the attached individual spec sheet for this...

- it says max 30A per MC4 connection
so surely the Max I Amps for MPPT tracker should be 30A not 70A?

For some reason theyre quoting short circuit current, i'm not sure of the relevance unless they intend to put a short circuit on the PV input?

- it has 2 x MPPT trackers (some other models have 3x)
- there is still no min and max Vmpp info ?

If I'm reading this correctly it has a really high start-up voltage of 245V ?

I dont believe thats the correct figure.
Looking in the user manual, hidden away it says "
The solar charge controller will operate only if the PV voltage exceeds battery voltage (Vbat). PV voltage must exceed Vbat + 5V for the controller to start. Thereafter minimum PV voltage is Vbat + 1V."

Thanks for taking a look

My pleasure, it looks a nice unit, definitely go for the 5000 rather than the 3000 though.

 

[MHarv]

Make sure it is ENA Type Tested Registered Compliant. Please read thread on this forum before your design & installation of items.

Multiplus UK G98 G99 non-compliance update​

DNO’s have many G98 & G99 applications on hold ( read the Victron Community article)
“Awaiting Further Information” for ENA Type Tested inverters for “Approval”

No MSC installer will install or more precisely “Connect Up” to household DNO Supply if inverter is designated “Awaiting Further Information”

This mainly Victron matter for each inverter to get UK ENA approval. DNO for G98 can
ask for Disconnection of Installation after installed withstanding ENREC G98 documentation until further “Information is forthcoming from Victron reference specific inverters.

Check the ENA Register for Green Compliant inverter(s)

Hopefully Victron will sort out their “Certification” of relevant equipment for Plant Generation

 

[bladerunnerpv]

Yeah, thanks MHarv, I'm aware of the ENA noise on Multiplus etc, it's been going on for a while apparently, I'm sure it will get sorted in the end.

 

[MHarv]

No problem just unfortunate circumstances for people at present who have purchased slightly more expensive good quality equipment being held up “Connecting Up” to the DNO supply.

 

[johnb2713]

Make sure it is ENA Type Tested Registered Compliant. Please read thread on this forum before your design & installation of items.

Multiplus UK G98 G99 non-compliance update​

DNO’s have many G98 & G99 applications on hold ( read the Victron Community article)
“Awaiting Further Information” for ENA Type Tested inverters for “Approval”

No MSC installer will install or more precisely “Connect Up” to household DNO Supply if inverter is designated “Awaiting Further Information”

This mainly Victron matter for each inverter to get UK ENA approval. DNO for G98 can
ask for Disconnection of Installation after installed withstanding ENREC G98 documentation until further “Information is forthcoming from Victron reference specific inverters.

Check the ENA Register for Green Compliant inverter(s)

Hopefully Victron will sort out their “Certification” of relevant equipment for Plant Generation

They used to be compliant then the goal posts were moved and Victron didn't get the relevant paperwork in on time so the approval was lost, the Quattro last it at the same time too. Quattro has now gained compliance again and the Multiplus II awaiting testing so it should be anytime now. Thankfully mine was OK at the time before the compliance was lost.

 

[MHarv]

Exactly John, just “RedTape” syndrome
Same for Mercedes on UN 79 Park Assist
some models before 2019 had it now not allowed in specific countries! the procedure is still under Driver Control to override by brake system.

 

[johnb2713]

Exactly John, just “RedTape” syndrome
Same for Mercedes on UN 79 Park Assist
some models before 2019 had it now not allowed in specific countries! the procedure is still under Driver Control to override by brake system.

Agreed, money making exercise for those jobsworths.

 

[bladerunnerpv]

Thanks for the leg-up John, much appreciated, will take me a while to digest...

couple of further queries...

i) How did you get to Approx 12A for the Max AC current output please ?

ii) I couldn't believe the 245V startup voltage either,
Vbat+5V sounds sooo much better , which would put it in the region of 60V, which looks pretty darn good.
IIRC The Growatt string inverters and poss Solax are around the 80V mark and they're about the best I've found in my trawls

iii) In Inverter section of the data sheet it quotes "Peak Power" - is this likely to be a peak output for a limited period of time ?

iv) in the Charge controller section the datasheet indicates "maximum PV power" - this is the kWp (p=peak) of the panels?


Finally w.r.t. the 5000 model, it would have
Battery max charge power Watts
of 52.8V x 70A = 3696W ? (from "charger" section), which is double the 3000 model
and 4kW looks pretty good to me compared to most other systems.

For the 3000 model the max PV power is 4000W, and the AC output is 2400W continuous, 5500W peak. That's a lot of undersizing if 4kWp is plugged into 2400W AC out?

IIRC Binky likes to ensure AC out doesn't exceed DC in by too much

Makes me think, for my 8.5kWp East-West system thoughts, that I would need a more capable string inverter. So might need to go with 2 x string inverters with a Multiplus II instead of an EasySolar.

Hmm food for thought, look at PV string inverters next

Must stop the connection between fingers and thoughts somehow - I'm rambling again!!

 

[johnb2713]

Thanks for the leg-up John, much appreciated, will take me a while to digest...

No problem.

couple of further queries...

i) How did you get to Approx 12A for the Max AC current output please ?

3000VA / 230v

ii) I couldn't believe the 245V startup voltage either,
Vbat+5V sounds sooo much better , which would put it in the region of 60V, which looks pretty darn good.
IIRC The Growatt string inverters and poss Solax are around the 80V mark and they're about the best I've found in my trawls

Victron is good gear for sure, unlike most others theyre very well rated, my Multipluss II is rated at 5kW and has been seen with an overload message on the screen whilst still supplying 9kW!

iii) In Inverter section of the data sheet it quotes "Peak Power" - is this likely to be a peak output for a limited period of time ?

Yes

iv) in the Charge controller section the datasheet indicates "maximum PV power" - this is the kWp (p=peak) of the panels?

This I never understand, the charge controller will simply load the panels to what it needs, having a greater supply available I cant see why it would be an issue.

Finally w.r.t. the 5000 model, it would have
Battery max charge power Watts
of 52.8V x 70A = 3696W ? (from "charger" section), which is double the 3000 model and 4kW looks pretty good to me compared to most other systems.

Yes correct and agreed!

For the 3000 model the max PV power is 4000W, and the AC output is 2400W continuous, 5500W peak. That's a lot of undersizing if 4kWp is plugged into 2400W AC out?

True but it makes the Solar PV generation start sooner.

IIRC Binky likes to ensure AC out doesn't exceed DC in by too much

I'm not sure why that would be, maybe Binky will advise.

Makes me think, for my 8.5kWp East-West system thoughts, that I would need a more capable string inverter. So might need to go with 2 x string inverters with a Multiplus II instead of an EasySolar.

It would be very beneficial (read essential) to have a dual MPPT for this, I'm surprised that Victron havent put a dual MPPT in the Easysolar.

Hmm food for thought, look at PV string inverters next

Victron do a colossal number of them, have a look on Youtube at the off grid garage channel, I think he has several Victron MPPT's running.

Must stop the connection between fingers and thoughts somehow - I'm rambling again!!

No problem, look forward to the install.

 

[bladerunnerpv]

Just reading through this again and realised I hadn't attached the easysolar spec ! doh ! Was clearly already moving on and thinking about the PV inverter end of things. See easy solar link below. Wish they did an 8k version of the easy solar too, especially as there's 8, 10 and even 15VA versions of multiplus and quattro.

https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa...V-48V-3kVA-48V-5kVA-MPPT-250-70-100-GX-EN.pdf
Also I don't see an easysolar on the ENA test type register, does this mean it's not poss. to use the EasySolar in UK?

Victron has G99 certificate for it though
https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa...G99-1-EasySolar-II-24V-48V-3k-&-48V-5k-GX.pdf

 

[bladerunnerpv]

deleted

 

[johnb2713]

Just reading through this again and realised I hadn't attached the easysolar spec ! doh ! Was clearly already moving on and thinking about the PV inverter end of things. See easy solar link below. Wish they did an 8k version of the easy solar too, especially as there's 8, 10 and even 15VA versions of multiplus and quattro.

https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa...V-48V-3kVA-48V-5kVA-MPPT-250-70-100-GX-EN.pdf
Also I don't see an easysolar on the ENA test type register, does this mean it's not poss. to use the EasySolar in UK?

Victron has G99 certificate for it though
https://www.victronenergy.com/uploa...G99-1-EasySolar-II-24V-48V-3k-&-48V-5k-GX.pdf

The beauty of Victron is that units are easily linked together. You could use Multiplus II 10kW and a Victron MPPT solar PV controller, link the two together and it would be the same as your suggested Easy Solar 10,000 unit. If you want more output on the inverter, double up the Multiplus II - 2 x 8kW would give 16 kW single phase. All of it plug and play, it's a great system.