Green Deal

[adammid]

Anyone here a member of the green deal scheme? Either as a registered installer or as a green deal advisor.

Is it worth getting into?

What are your thoughts on the latest scam?

 

[adammid]

Canoeboy thats a fair comment but its only worth it to the customer if they stay in that house until its paid off, otherwise they have lost out. In reality i would be very surprised if a few solar panels on a house would increase the house value at all. I know if i was buying a house, i wouldn't think 'oh great lets buy this house as it will save us money'. 

 

[adammid]

I totally agree with you but does a few solar panels really add value to a property? if it does then fair enough i would say to anyone if they can afford to, pay for it upfront, if renewable systems don't add value to a property then I would say the green deal is a logical solution as the loan stays with the house and not the one who got the work done in the first place and then has moved on.

 

[adammid]

A good argument there canoeboy,

I would be interested to know what the property market makes of the green deal etc.

 

[binky]

Joy of GD is that you don't need capital to fit gear, however you can't just choose Solar panels. The assessment will generate recommendations starting with the cheapest and highest payback, namely insulation but can progress from there into heating controls, boilers, solar thermal, solar PV, heat pumps etc etc. You pay back costs WHICH MUST BE LESS THAN COST OF LOAN, via leccy bill, so no upfront money, improved property (subbies might be ***** mind you), and reduced energy bills - kind of no-brainer really. Even better if you leave property koan stays with the meter it's attached to. Can't see it really being a selling issue either - it means the property will cost less to run. I can obviously see potential pitfalls with system, like any scheme involving money, but overall it does make sense. In particular its open to tennants - especially good for those with idiot landlords in ***** hole properties.

 

[Sidewinder]

So IF I can't afford Solar PV, which I can't, and have no intention of moving, which I don't,  would it be worth me going down this road?

 

[Steve3948]

Report out this week says it's sliding into oblivion with no interest.

 

[Sidewinder]

Looking at this at the moment as on the face of it we meet the criteria.

http://www.nestwales.org.uk/

 

[adammid]

Joy of GD is that you don't need capital to fit gear, however you can't just choose Solar panels. The assessment will generate recommendations starting with the cheapest and highest payback, namely insulation but can progress from there into heating controls, boilers, solar thermal, solar PV, heat pumps etc etc. You pay back costs WHICH MUST BE LESS THAN COST OF LOAN, via leccy bill, so no upfront money, improved property (subbies might be ***** mind you), and reduced energy bills - kind of no-brainer really. Even better if you leave property koan stays with the meter it's attached to. Can't see it really being a selling issue either - it means the property will cost less to run. I can obviously see potential pitfalls with system, like any scheme involving money, but overall it does make sense. In particular its open to tennants - especially good for those with idiot landlords in ***** hole properties.

The part that I like is that the loan stays with the meter, thus allowing those who have had the work done, the freedom to move.

I wonder if you are allowed to become an assessor as well as an installer or would that make the assessor biased??

 

[steptoe]

Ive just been approached this week about wiring boilers for a new guy that has started green deal,

still trying to work out prices,

he wants a blind price for everything,

although main bonds etc are all extra, he wants a fixed price for each part, no matter what the house is like, every house the same cos I'll have to do them blind,,,,  :shakehead

 

[NozSpark]

Wireless is your friend then

 

[steptoe]

Wireless is your friend then

Oh yes, they are happy with that,

Its the main bonds Im more concerned about, :|

 

[Manator]

The Green Deal is a hot topic over at CIBSE. The government have almost watered down the requirements for approval of assessors. This is because there has not been the uptake that the government expected. So their view is " if those who are qualified are not pushing the green deal, then make others qualified to help push it to the home owner" 

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmselect/cmenergy/142/142.pdf?goback=.gmr_75555.gde_75555_member_243068458

http://energyassessormagazine.com/ndeas_snub_gda_training_deal.html

 

[ProDave]

So let me get this straight.

If you "apply" for the green deal, someone will come and look at your house.  THEY will tell you what needs doing and how much it will cost.

If you take up the "offer" YOU won't have any choice over what improvements they make. So you won't be able to say I'll stick with my present boiler until it breaks down, and I would rather have the solar PV.

IF that's the way it works, I would not let them in my door.  It's a bit like having double glazing, but not being able to choose the windows you have fitted.

 

[Manator]

You are almost spot on there Dave.

The idea is to lower the carbon foot print of any household, to this end various measures can be taken in order to improve energy efficiency. CIBSE in principle support this idea, however the way the GD is in its present form, they have reservations as to the effectiveness of the scheme and the benefits to clients. Couple that with the "loan scheme" it is possible to get a local plumber to do a boiler change for far less than say British Gas will under the green deal.

This is all on the back of the failed and rejected scheme they had a few years ago.

Its another one of those intentions are good but flawed schemes that they put out from time to time.

Another problem is the impartial advise you are given by the assessor, the government have basically opened the door (as they did with part p) and now allow "new entrants" to qualify as assessors.

In fact I am going to invite a person who is very experienced to comment on this discussion, her input and blogs are very interesting reading. She will be able to show you the problems with the scheme.

 

[binky]

all schemes have problems, that will never change. First part of Assessor course is domestic energy assessor as per EPCs, second part is assessing actual energy useage by the occupants of building. You can't pick and chose which technologies are installed, but any recommendations made will work for you, although you can refuse to have certain things done, like external wall cladding your victorian house - it'll spoil the look. Any assessor worth his salt will soon learn how to manipulate software to bias stuff towards what the customer wants, like PV. Quite often the more expensive options like solar PV and thermal will come up as recomendations that will attract partial funding. The software is annoying because it limits recommendations to about 3 or 4 items, ie the ones with the best return on investment, PV could  iss out by 1 point and not be shown. As said before though, I haven't met an EPC guy yet who can't tweak numbers (apart from one who was a jobsworth).

So why am I not out and about 'assessing', to be frank, it would bore me shiteless, it's nothing but a tick box exercise via software. I have quite enough paperwork to do as it is, I would have to sack the team to spend all day doing this stuff, and I'm not about to do that. It also coincided with a resurgent PV market, which is more interesting and worth more money to me.

 

[Manator]

I have a link to a good blog that anyone interested should read.

http://www.greendealreport.info

 

[Manator]

The author is going to have a look at what we have debated, although very busy she may just say a few things. She is very outspoken but very good at getting a message across

 

[binky]

Commercial energy assessors are few and far between, ergo they have enough work already. From a commercial point of view businesses can probably access financing at a cheaper rate then GD offers, so there is limited incentive to use the scheme, plus there are a plethora of other carbon reduction schemes already on offer, albeit they can be hard to pin down when you need them. The GD suffers from a lack of assessors in general, coupled with poor promotion ergo a bit sluggish getting going. Catch 22 no point promoting scheme if there's no-one to do an essential part of the work.

 

[Manator]

Here is an update on the Green Deal.

http://greendealreport.info/2013/06/28/letter-received-from-greg-barker/?goback=.gde_75555_member_253771225