Help Appreciated - Awol Builder / No Elec. Cert So No Completion Of Loft Conversion.

[mathers]

Hello all, any advice is greatly appreciated and I am holding my hands high in the air to say yes I am a naive eejit.

We had a loft conversion - hip to gable including an en suite completed in 2013.  Building Regs came and left the site inspection sheet which stated all works completed satisfactorily and final cert. would be issued upon receipt of electrical certificate.  

Here I have the problem as the builder has fell off the planet removed his web site and is no longer answering my calls or texts etc. In my defense at being so gullible, we had moved house after I had a stroke and a year later discovered I was pregnant having lost my driving license due to a vision defecit and so we had moved out of a finished lovely house into a doer up near our kids school and had been through the mill a bit.  Our former neighbours had had the same company do the same loft conversion which had gone according to plan and had recommended the builder.

The builder used a non local authority - approved inspector whom I have been in contact with to see what I can do to get the electrics sorted and the final certificate.

He said I would need something better than a periodic would this by an EIC  or is this just a new name for it he was a bit vague to be honest.

Any advice greatly appreciated and I am resigned to the fact that I may end up with holes and things in my plastered walls etc but really just want it sorted so I can get on with it - the approved inspector said they could appoint someone but it would be at a significant cost compared to appointing an electrician ourselves.

So my question is basically;

What body should I make sure the electrician belongs to please and how would I check they're legitimate and what inspection type should I be asking for?  I'm presuiming once I have appointed one he / she can liaise with the building control man.

I am also considering seeking legal advice regarding the builder on principle more than anything as I know it won't get the certificate sorted but I suppose I still believe that someone's word should mean something. 

Any advice on this is greatly appreciated.

 

[DiddyFA]

Significant cost - about £450 ish for local authority seems to be the general price. I don't see how any electrician could issue anything other than an EICR (Periodic's new name). I certainly would never sign an EIC (Which is what is supposed to happen on completion of a new installation.) for something I personally had not wired or at least supervised all through the stages of the install.

Im sure you will be able to get an electrician to do you one of the above....cost ? Who knows without seeing the job really. See when a spark signs that silly bit of paper he kind of becomes responsible for the safety of the installation for a period of time......ie if he passed it all as safe and then this time next year that loose connection burns your house down then the poor old spark who signed the silly piece of paper could be held responsible...

Anyway all that aside you are looking for an electrician that is registered with one of the schemes such as STORMA or ELECSA or NAPIT or NICEIC with the later being the most common but all of these scheme members can sign off work.....

 

[sparks2911]

Was it the builder that done the electrical works or did he bring in an electrician.... if he used an electrician then you could chase him for paperwork as it would have been his responsibility.

 

[NozSpark]

Unfortunately being a member of a scheme does not guarantee the quality of the work or the contractor... I'm afraid that the schemes are allowing many companies to join them who pay their fee and then carry out shoddy work.

Your best bet would be to get recommendations of registered electricians

 

[Blue Duck]

steptoe is in Manchester

 

[roys]

Thought steptoe was in hiding

 

[Steve3948]

As above did the builder do the electrical installation or did he get an Electrician in.

I don't think we have ever done a job where the client does not know who we are.

Your first port of call if it was an Electrician is contact him, and ask for certificate, if he declines say you will report him and see what that brings.

Failing that you can offer at best an EICR and explain the reasons why that's the best you can do.

This is the type if thing that happens when a mate down the road does it on the cheap for cash, then after it becomes clear that may not have so cheap after all.

People should look into all the things that could go wrong and make sure its covered before they commit.

 

[andyh86]

Can you get an electrician registered with a competent persons scheme in a Third Party Capacity to sign it off? Maybe try contacting NICEIC/NAPIT Directly?

 

[Evans Electric]

I  believe NAPIT   are in favour of carrying out third party inspections whereas  NICEIC/ ELECSA  have registered their dissaproval of such things.

But as above , I think your first action is to find out who the builder's Electrician  was , but don't put too much hope into that. 

 

[Doc Hudson]

Did  you not have a postal address for the builder? I cannot believe any reputable company or trades-person would not willingly promote their full contact details on their business cards, invoices or advertising. If you only have a phone number or e-mail address as your means of contact then I wouldn't hold much hope personally. If the builder did use an electrician I cannot believe any reputable electrician didn't issue all the correct paper work or advertise their contact details to every possible potential future customer. Unless the builder didn't pay them or they were both working a tax dodge fiddle, cash job, no certificates or paper trail of liability for anything.  I would guess that who or what the LABC dictate may end up as the best solution, as why would any other electrician want to accept responsibility for any further failings on work they did not do.

Doc H..

 

[pewter]

I would gain correspondence with your local building control who is the person who will be able to give you completion regards building control.  Be extra nice as this person has the power to sort this out.

I would explain your situation to the building control, and that you can only get an EICR and a EIC is not possible as only the original installer can issue an EIC.  The only way to get a EIC is to have the electrics all ripped out and start again (costing £1000s damaging everything).    I would ask if they would prefer an EICR from a company they deal with ( they can appoint an electrician to do just this if a DIYer was to do there own work.) or if you can get an electrician to do a EICR. Building control might want to have a quick visit after and charge you £80-200 for it.

I have done this with my own work before i was registered to do self certification.  It is possible and if your contact at building control is not being helpful ask to speak with another.

The original installer might have died, emigrated, gone mad, gone to prison.   They can not expect everything to be ripped out and re done.   The building control officer has the power to allow the EICR.

The EICR will not damage the property. Provided it comes back with a good report,  everything might cost less then £500.

 

[Murdoch]

I  believe NAPIT   are in favour of carrying out third party inspections whereas  NICEIC/ ELECSA  have registered their dissaproval of such things.

But as above , I think your first action is to find out who the builder's Electrician  was , but don't put too much hope into that. 

My understanding is that the said electrician needs to be involved at EVERY stage so that rules 3rd party out.

The ONLY option is to ask your local building control what they will accept - anything else is pure speculation.

 

[NozSpark]

I didn't think that they'd sorted this 3rd party thing out yet,,,, isn't it still in discussion?

 

[Evans Electric]

I thought I'd read that Nappitt were going ahead with the third party thing ..............definitely read that NICEIC /ELECSA  were totally against it .

 

[Murdoch]

what ever, 3rd party can't be used as a substitute for notification is my understanding!

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Remember  that  Whoever  does the test & inspect/report  for whatever certificate, is only checking what is there. If there is anything at all wrong/not to the regs then it will be at an additional expense to correct it.

 

[mathers]

I'm so dim I hadn't set the settings to send me notification of replies - sorry I am very grateful for replies.  After telling him I had an appointment on Fri to take matters Thursday he sorted an electrician who was supposed to come yesterday but has ended up booking in for 11 today - hope he isn't a mass murderer!  

The builder I believe wired the job and this electrician was to sign it off - I am presuming it is the same one - so I am presuming it is this third party thing as he says he is Part P ? and will bring his laptop and do it all online here.  I asked builder about if it was the periodical test or the thing it is called now and he said no it is "full cert part P on the loft"  An electrician did come part way through to do something with the fuse box thing - nothing major as we had had that replaced prior to the loft when we had the periodic thing done to check the house electrics after moving in.  

I just presumed at the beginning that the building control man was checking all the loft incl electrics as builder said he was electrician but hadn't carried on to part p - am dim and gullible but presumed the builing inspector would be the person checking.

I'll see what this man says and does and what paperwork / internet thing he does and let you know. 

The builder has taken down his website and email is also no longer active but so far this week he has finally responded to my texts etc after I said I'd made the  appointment.   

Thank you so much for your advice and I shall bend your ears further as I have lost a lot of confidence in the builder after this palava and will probably for peace of mind (even if he does issue this sign off thing) want the electrics checking to make sure they are as they should be and safe.

Thanks all

take matters futher - no Thursay sorry 

 

[mathers]

Well I am still alive and he left me with a NAPIT Electrical Certificate Installation/ Modification and said it had been sent off?  I've emailed a copy to Building Inspector.

 

[kerching]

All the building inspector will be bothered about is the Part P notification....i would imagine your certificate ( emailsed) will not even be looked at

The Internet bit would be him notifying NAPPIT on line so that they will then notify BC

Why not scan the cert ( address and stuff blanked out along with contractors details to save litigation)... Put it on here and let the forumites have a look at it?

Its a thought

Just saying

 

[Evans Electric]

what ever, 3rd party can't be used as a substitute for notification is my understanding!

The other thing I read was that existing contractors were not being considered for Third Party Insp/Test , but instead,  yet another seperate organisation consisting of qualified testers / engineers  carrying large insurances to cover their arses against shoddy work .

This was to assist unregistered /unqualified / untrained  or DIY ers to carry out electrical work , then call in a test & Inspect company to sign it off.

This was reason NICEIC et. al  were against it I believe.