Help Please

[Doc Hudson]

If we include the wider scope of BS7671 and look at the guidance notes, competence is still mentioned. Such as GN3 where it discusses the required competence of someone doing initial or periodic inspection and testing. We also still have EAWR 16 requiring competence to prevent danger and injury. However, as DIYers can still legally do their own electrical alterations, there is no statutory requirement for training, education, competence, correct tools, calibrated test instruments or anything else for anyone doing electrical work. Even where competence is mentioned you only need to have sufficient knowledge and experience of the nature of the installation being worked on. You do not need to be fully trained on every type of installation. So a  part qualified person could actually be quite reasonably competent for some fields of work.

Doc H.

 

[NozSpark]

There are also many "fully qualified" guys who shouldn't be calling themselves electricians either,,,, IMHO

 

[Essex1]

If we include the wider scope of BS7671 and look at the guidance notes, competence is still mentioned. Such as GN3 where it discusses the required competence of someone doing initial or periodic inspection and testing. We also still have EAWR 16 requiring competence to prevent danger and injury. However, as DIYers can still legally do their own electrical alterations, there is no statutory requirement for training, education, competence, correct tools, calibrated test instruments or anything else for anyone doing electrical work. Even where competence is mentioned you only need to have sufficient knowledge and experience of the nature of the installation being worked on. You do not need to be fully trained on every type of installation. So a  part qualified person could actually be quite reasonably competent for some fields of work.

Doc H.

Just because there is no specific law doesn't mean it is right. DIY in my opinion has no place in our world and should be strongly discouraged by anyone competent enough to know the dangers.

There are also many "fully qualified" guys who shouldn't be calling themselves electricians either,,,, IMHO

Dead right.

 

[ProDave]

Just because there is no specific law doesn't mean it is right. DIY in my opinion has no place in our world and should be strongly discouraged by anyone competent enough to know the dangers.

Dead right.

Is that just DIY electrics you think should be banned, or DIY plumbing, gas, carpentry, decorating, building etc?

 

[Blue Duck]

Ban DIY! :lol:

More people go to ******* B&Q on Sunday than Church!

This is the way that Maggie wanted it, organisation's just existing to fill holes in bureaucracy then when those holes are filled they make up something else and another company or organisation will fill the gap with some kind of scheme that you have to sign up to if you want to do a **** in the morning!

:slap

 

[Doc Hudson]

Just because there is no specific law doesn't mean it is right. DIY in my opinion has no place in our world and should be strongly discouraged by anyone competent enough to know the dangers.

Just because you don't like something doesn't make it wrong. The OP was asking what their options were and others have quite rightly pointed out, legally they do have several options. Anybody has a perfectly free choice and right to try any activities that are legally permissible within this country. Until such times that the law changes then anyone asking similar questions should be given factual answers not an individuals personal opinion about how an industry should run or  what they think any other person is entitled to do. For example, someone who is qualified and competent to ensure the safety and wellbeing of livestock and is also reasonably good at working with their hands and has the ability to follow installation instructions provided by a manufacture and is able to use the internet or a wholesalers to purchase appropriate materials, etc. in your ideal world should never be allowed to do any DIY electrical work? There are no reasonable safety grounds or statistics to suggest that DIY electrical work is a major hazard to the general public, any more than the dangers of using the road is a danger. Cars are not going to be banned and I doubt DIY electrical work will be either? Probably best to concentrate our answers around reality not an idealistic Utopia.   

Doc H.

 

[pewter]

thanks for the info guys, but am i limited to what i can do, if i dont finish my 2356?? if i have my 2330 level 3, 2391, and maybe 17th edition can i do all the same things as if i had my nvq? I have abit of experience working on site and in commercial but we hardly do it and since you can't complete 2356 of just domestic, i dont know if ill be able to finish it, and would that then mean ive wasted the last 4 years(to the point i could only be an electricians mate or something?)

well done it sounds like you are doing the right courses.  

JIB i think will want you to have an NVQ to be classed as an eletrician otherwise you will be a classed as installer or something.  I think when you get NVQ they class you as an electrician, NVQ + 2394/5 approved, NVQ + 2394/5/6 technician.  I think.

I think most schemes like NICEIC will want you to have an NVQ (i might be wrong) to join there club.

Keep asking around and hopefully you can find someone to help you complete the NVQ. Or create a job to do so.

Worth doing 2382 17th regs,  & 2394/5/6 if you can.

I dont think you have wasted your time at all.

 

[Essex1]

Is that just DIY electrics you think should be banned, or DIY plumbing, gas, carpentry, decorating, building etc?

Just DIY electrics. Anything that if done wrong could result in serious injury or death. You would not expect to see a DIY enthusiast to build an extension to their house or a roof conversion would you?

Ban DIY! :lol:

More people go to ******* B&Q on Sunday than Church!

This is the way that Maggie wanted it, organisation's just existing to fill holes in bureaucracy then when those holes are filled they make up something else and another company or organisation will fill the gap with some kind of scheme that you have to sign up to if you want to do a **** in the morning!

:slap

Just electrical DIY.

 

[Essex1]

Just because you don't like something doesn't make it wrong. The OP was asking what their options were and others have quite rightly pointed out, legally they do have several options. Anybody has a perfectly free choice and right to try any activities that are legally permissible within this country. Until such times that the law changes then anyone asking similar questions should be given factual answers not an individuals personal opinion about how an industry should run or  what they think any other person is entitled to do. For example, someone who is qualified and competent to ensure the safety and wellbeing of livestock and is also reasonably good at working with their hands and has the ability to follow installation instructions provided by a manufacture and is able to use the internet or a wholesalers to purchase appropriate materials, etc. in your ideal world should never be allowed to do any DIY electrical work? There are no reasonable safety grounds or statistics to suggest that DIY electrical work is a major hazard to the general public, any more than the dangers of using the road is a danger. Cars are not going to be banned and I doubt DIY electrical work will be either? Probably best to concentrate our answers around reality not an idealistic Utopia.   

Doc H.

Are you seriously suggesting that just because someone can look after cows and drive to and from an electrical wholesaler that means they can carry out electrical works???????

I will leave the legal questions for the lawyers forum. This is an electrical forum which the whole basis of is persons opinions. Are you suggesting that only 100% facts can be posted on this forum?

In your farmers guide to electrics you do not even mention testing to ensure the works is safe. Something that is hammered Into us as COMPETENT electricians. If someone want to do a bit of DIY that can only hurt themselves then fine. But the grandad who changes the sockets in the new grand daughters room should not be allowed 100%.

No statistics. Just look at the rise in domestic electrical fires since 2008 published by the LFB. Now I know these are contentious but is it not possible to conceive that since the introduction of Part P and the economic crash that more people have decided to try and carry out more and more DIY work indoors? Not knowing the extent of their competence have even done a few CUs?

You are correct that cars will not be banned. But driving them without being assessed as competent is. So your arguement fails there.

Any responsible person advising a person to complete DIY electrical work knowing full well what the dangers could be is irresponsible at best.

 

[Doc Hudson]

No statistics. Just look at the rise in domestic electrical fires since 2008 published by the LFB. Now I know these are contentious but is it not possible to conceive that since the introduction of Part P and the economic crash that more people have decided to try and carry out more and more DIY work indoors? Not knowing the extent of their competence have even done a few CUs?

DIY electrical work has been going on since long before Part-P, also just because a house fire is classed as an electrical fault that has no relevance to if DIY work has been undertaken. A lot of electrical fires relate to faulty appliances, extension leads etc. But as we all know a vast amount of DIY work is carried out every year, so proportional to the amount of work done the number of serious injuries are actually small. Hence why no one has bothered to enforce any legislation. As such no one has to be fully trained in full scope at everything before they are allowed to do any electrical work. That is just a simple fact about how the industry works.

Doc H.

 

[Essex1]

DIY electrical work has been going on since long before Part-P, also just because a house fire is classed as an electrical fault that has no relevance to if DIY work has been undertaken. A lot of electrical fires relate to faulty appliances, extension leads etc. But as we all know a vast amount of DIY work is carried out every year, so proportional to the amount of work done the number of serious injuries are actually small. Hence why no one has bothered to enforce any legislation. As such no one has to be fully trained in full scope at everything before they are allowed to do any electrical work. That is just a simple fact about how the industry works.

Doc H.

As I said they are contentious.  Also how many electric shocks go unreported by DIYers?

 

[ProDave]

Just DIY electrics. Anything that if done wrong could result in serious injury or death. You would not expect to see a DIY enthusiast to build an extension to their house or a roof conversion would you?

Actually I WOULD.

There are plenty of self builders building all or part of ther houses themselves.

Would it worry you that I am doing a lot of the building of my new house.  I dug the foundations myself on my digger I bought from ebay (no training had never driven a digger before)  I will be tiling the roof once the builders have built the basic shell working from my own scaffold that I bought and erected myself.  I will be doing all the carpentry (yes you guessed, no formal training) I will be doing all the plumbing (some informal training from my dad) which includes LPG gas to the kitchen hob.

Yes absolutely shocking, it should not be allowed.

No statistics. Just look at the rise in domestic electrical fires since 2008 published by the LFB. 

You are trying to prove how dangerous DIY is, by pointing to a rise in electrical fires since Part P came into force (which should have stopped a lot of DIY electrical work)

It couldn't be anything to do with a new breed of "part P qualified" 5 week course "electricians" entering the market from that time could it?

By the way I am still looking for any data that compares electrical fires or injuries since 2006 comparing England with Scotland or NI

 

[Andy™]

of course its nothing to do with the 5DW's - they are qualified afterall

 

[ProDave]

As I said they are contentious.  Also how many electric shocks go unreported by DIYers?

How many electric shocks go unreported by professionals?

If YOU get an electric shock (not that you ever would) WHO would you report it to and why?

 

[bluetobits]

How many electric shocks go unreported by professionals?

If YOU get an electric shock (not that you ever would) WHO would you report it to and why?

I got one the other week and reported it to OFGEN. It was extortionate  :coat

 

[Essex1]

Unbelievable. You will moan about 5WW but defend DIYers. That makes no sense in my eyes. Classic. Haha.

 

[Andy™]

DIYers dont claim to be electricians and charge customers for their lack of ability to do anything that involves more than 1 AA battery

 

[Essex1]

How many electric shocks go unreported by professionals?

If YOU get an electric shock (not that you ever would) WHO would you report it to and why?

The only thing I will het a shock from is the keyboard I am afraid.

DIYers dont claim to be electricians and charge customers for their lack of ability to do anything that involves more than 1 AA battery

DIYers dont claim to be electricians and charge customers for their lack of ability to do anything that involves more than 1 AA battery

I am talking safety not money. God man.

 

[Andy™]

if youre going to get a shock from your keyboard, i suggest getting someone qualified to fix it, since it shouldnt be live... actually, scrap that, keep using the defective keyboard.

 

[ProDave]

Unbelievable. You will moan about 5WW but defend DIYers. That makes no sense in my eyes. Classic. Haha.

I know a lot of very competent DIYers.

I also have seem the defective work of "electricians"

There are good and bad in all walks of life.

A competent DIYer who only does his own work and only does what is within his knowledge is better in my book that an incompetent "electrician" trying and failing to do paid work to an acceptable standard for customers