Help With 2 Way Lighting Circuit Please

[angellonewolf]

went round a mates house and he said he had a problem with lights in hes hall he had sparks come round to do a few jobs and asked him to change the light switches for him

2 gang down stairs controls both down stairs and upstars and the one light switch up stairs only works the light at the top of the stairs

i belive from what he said the guy did not do any thing with the lights them selves so i asume all that is ok

with luck i can put picks on of the cables

i do have fluke muti meter with volt and contanuity on it if this helps

how would i go about finding out how it should be rewired so all works ok

at the moment you can use both light switches down stairs to work both lights but if you then power on the up staris light from down stairs then use the upstairs light switch you cant turn off the light again downstairs and then it will power the lights alternating down statirs and upstairs  untill you go upstairs and flick the switch and then the light work ok

does this mean the wayit was wired wrong was in the upstars switch ?

thanks for all your help in advacnce

ps i am work today but will try to post back in the day or after 4.30

again thanks angel

 

[Doc Hudson]

The cable going between the up & down switches would appear to be a twin & earth red/black. but on your downstairs picture both of the reds are going to the same switch & both of the blacks are on the other switch. The one red is the supply live coming to feed both switches, the other red should be used as a strapper to upstairs. 1xred & 1xblack need swapping over. If you friend paid this other spark for doing the work they need a refund IMHO. A person who cannot get a two-way light switch swapped over correctly is not an electrician.

Doc H. 

 

[kerching]

+1 to what he said^^^^^^

I would not be too happy with the conductors showing where they go into the terminals, or the lack of red/brown sleeving to identify the switch wires...but what do I know?

I know that I wouldn't have paid somebody to 'do it wrong'

 

[ProDave]

+1

If your "sparks" messed it up, then surely he should come back FOC and put it right?  As above why pay somebody who didn't do it right?

 

[angellonewolf]

Thanks for the help guys

The spark that was there was there to do other stuff and just changed them while he was there so assume there was no charge light switches that is why he was not called back to fix it as he done it out of good will

If I can fix it my self no worries

Any more things to cheak

 

[Doc Hudson]

Thanks for the help guys The spark that was there was there to do other stuff and just changed them while he was there so assume there was no charge light switches that is why he was not called back to fix it as he done it out of good will If I can fix it my self no worries Any more things to cheak

All electrical work is done while the electrician is there, but the more worrying point is, how can any qualified competent person be unable to change a light switch correctly and not verify it is working correctly before leaving site? I would be concerned about the other work he/she has done as well if this is a true example of their abilities. Most sensible customers would still be ringing back the person who did the work to rectify the issue at their expense as they did the original work wrong. Unless of course the mystery spark is actually the DIY homeowner out of their depth?

Doc H. 

 

[ProDave]

If you want to try and put it right yourself try this:

Concentrate on the 2 gang switch downstairs.

As already pointed out, the landing light, 2 way switch should have 1 red and one black coming out of it. Presently it has two blacks.

Now BEFORE you change anything, LABEL all the wires at that switch  say 1, 2, 3, 4 and draw a diagram showing which wire went where. Then you can always get back to where you were if it does not work.

As I say, the left hand switch needs to have a red and a black coming out of it.  There are only two possibilities therefore so swap the red from the top of the right hand switch with one of the blacks.  If that doesn't fix it, put them back as they were, and then swap the red over with the other black.

Before anyone jumps on me, there are more scientific ways of belling it out to be sure, but since there are only two possibilities it's as simple just to try them.  As these are all switched lives, you won't blow anything up if you get them wrong, it simply won't switch properly.

And at the risk of stating the obvious DO ensure you isolate the circuit first at the consumer unit, and use your volt meter to verify the circuit is really dead before you touch anything.

And while you are at it, tidy up the wiring by ensuring the wires go properly into the terminals so you don't see bare copper wire showing, shorten them a bit if the terminals are not deep enough.

But as a matter of principle, I would personally call the other guy back.

 

[angellonewolf]

And if I have to do the long way eg buzzing out an you post instruction please thanks for the helpAnd some of you are quite

And if I have to do the long way eg buzzing out an you post instruction please thanks for the helpAnd not every one lies I find telling the truth 99.9 percent of the time works for me unless my other half asks me does this make me look fat in this lol

 

[Evans Electric]

Have to advise the "dead" way on here Angel, so  :-

Isolate circuit.

Disconnect the 2 gang switch.

Short the strappers out in the top switch.  R&Bk

Test across them at the bottom switch.

Part them to ensure it is correct.

Shove them in L1 & L2

Connect the other R&Bk to the other switch  C & L1

Fit the link between the both Commons. 

Job done.

Then to follow the letter of the law as we have it these days :-

Change all the core colours to Brown .

Test  R1& R2

Test Loop impedence .

Measure the Ze

Check the main & supplimentary bonding .

Install as necessary.

Check that the neutral to landing light is not "Borrowed"

Alter as necessary.

Fit an RCBO to that circuit to comply with the 19th edition.

Fill in a Minor works Cert

Register the job online .

If not a scam member call Buiding Control.

Pay them upwards of £300 to have job checked out.

Or not  :innocent

 

[batty]

Also remember you possibly need to isolate two circuits not sure if anybody has said this.

 

[Doc Hudson]

Looking at the wires in the two pictures they appear to be all fed from one supply, probably the red wire with the link to the other switch. It may be a borrowed neutral when it reaches the landing light though. To follow the letter of the law, there is no requirement for any Part-P involvement with the work as like for like repairs are exempt and it is not in a kitchen or bathroom. I would guess that the red & black wires toward the middle of the left hand picture need swapping over.

Doc H.

 

[angellonewolf]

thanks for the help guys will try it out when i get a chance to go round there in the day time i can much around at night but easer in the day time

again thanks angel

 

[Wilpickard]

thanks for the help guys will try it out when i get a chance to go round there in the day time i can much around at night but easer in the day time
again thanks angel

Now for the truth, who's house is it, yours or ya mates? Who's had a go at fitting the nice flat plate switches?

Don't ya think we've all never been called out to sort this kind of thing out before?

 

[Evans Electric]

Looking at the wires in the two pictures they appear to be all fed from one supply, probably the red wire with the link to the other switch. It may be a borrowed neutral when it reaches the landing light though. To follow the letter of the law,  as like for likethere is no requirement for any Part-P involvement with the work repairs are exempt and it is not in a kitchen or bathroom. I would guess that the red & black wires toward the middle of the left hand picture need swapping over.
Doc H.

Just me being sarcastic Doc !!!

 

[angellonewolf]

yes it defo a mates house and it was an sparky that done the job he is part of his removed family that done some work in the house and that is why there was no charge for the light switches as it is a family they dont want to rock the boat unless it cant be fixed hence as i know a small bit and can follow instructions he asked for my help

i myself have done a very few light switch changes in my time and the way i do it is the do one down stairs power on test power off then do the up stairs that way if i muck it up you know where you went wrong when both have been mucked about with it makes it more of a problem

as i said not every one lies

and if you dont belive me sorry but you are wrong lol

again thanks for the help angel

 

[ADS]

Looking at the wires in the two pictures they appear to be all fed from one supply, probably the red wire with the link to the other switch. It may be a borrowed neutral when it reaches the landing light though. To follow the letter of the law, there is no requirement for any Part-P involvement with the work as like for like repairs are exempt and it is not in a kitchen or bathroom. I would guess that the red & black wires toward the middle of the left hand picture need swapping over.
Doc H.

Just to be clear - All electrical work has to comply with 'Part P' and all other relevant parts of the 'Building Regulations' - what may not be required, in this instance, is 'notification' to 'Building Control'.

 

[Technician]

Nice list of tests, Evans;  may I respectfully point out

that you have omitted the insulation tests? 

I would have put a smiley on for you, but they are not

coming out to play.

 

[Technician]

If that is a metal fronted switch, why is there no lead

from the terminal in the box (clearly shown) to the

protective conductor terminal on the switch front?

Or have I read the picture incorrectly?

 

[ProDave]

If that is a metal fronted switch, why is there no leadfrom the terminal in the box (clearly shown) to the

protective conductor terminal on the switch front?

Or have I read the picture incorrectly?

The CPC is connected to the earth terminal on the metal front plates.

Providing one of the screw fixings goes into a fixed lug on the back box, there is no need for a fly lead to bond the back box.

 

[Technician]

Useful tip, Pro Dave.  Thanks.