High Zs on garden lights

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Found an unusual situation today at a large private estate i carry out the maintenance on. It was built in the mid 70's. TNCS Supplies. There's loads of all metal light fittings, about 1m high 'planted' all over the grounds giving a downlight. Every single one has the (originally glass) cover missing, leaving the BC lampholder and wiring exposed at just the right height for kiddies ( or nosey types) to stick their hands in.

I retro-fitted a round 2D bulkhead into the light as a sample today. I then started thinking about exporting the TNCS. I then tested it and 8 or 9 others to find no earth at all. Even when i stuck the earth probe into the flower beds. All the cables are concealed and i see no way of dismantling the lights. I think the joint from a SWA to the flex in the light was made in the pole before it was concreted in.

One light is connected differently in that the SWA runs half way up the pole, the armouring is cut off and the inner sheath disappears in a hole. I think there must have been a fault on this one previously. I think none of these lights are earthed originally re the exporting (then PME) problem, but they relied on the fact the lights are fixed into the earth. Probably no one ever tested them, Loop testers did not exist then and you would have probably put a lamp from L to E which may have lit.

Anyhow, i have about 30 of these problems to fix and i know the answer, what would you do ?

 

[NozSpark]

The bollards are ****ed anyway. :^O :^O:^O

Disconnect or rip 'em out and replace

But seriously is this circuit RCD protected??

And no earth loop through the bollard or ground???

 

[batty]

Slips

Rod them and put Rcd on them. I don't envy you this job.

Batty

; \

 

[NozSpark]

TT, RCD, DI fitting!

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

No Rcd's anywhere. Another example of crap workmanship was a Lewden type external 13a socket in the car wash bay. No earth when tested. When i opened it up and tested to the steel conduit feed the Zs was fine (No seperate cpc) The earth terminal on the socket had no links to the fixing screws and no cable had ever been fitted to the backbox. This socket which was in regular use by the 155 flats for vacuming, power wash etc had never been earthed in the 35 years it had been there.

I fitted a MK Masterseal Rcd socket in its place.

To make matters worse, on one of the bollards someone (i found out the decorating company last year) has extended off a light in red FP, buried about 2m across the lawn to a wall then up and feeds 2 x 500w pir halogen lights. When i pulled the 5A rewirable it had what looked like a bit of 2.5 linked across.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

I cant seem to find any Double insulated 2D 16w bulkheads as the choke is always metal ?

 

[NozSpark]

Then I'd prob link bollard and fitting earth together and TT the lot!! (inc. RCD)

It's not going to look good though!! :_| :_|

 

[batty]

Joking aside you have got your work cut out to put this lot right are none of the bollards earthed at all.

Batty

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

I picked up this contract about 8 months ago. All the electrics are awful. Even the 70w Son fittings (about 10 of them) are cheap and nasty to the extent when i put a new lamp in you could only just see it through the discolored plastic. These have been retro fitted to the original outside lighting via flex and twisted and taped joints.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

MMM........ just thinking, when i Rcd them do i need to sink earth rods aswell

 

[NozSpark]

Unless you can use the bollard as an earth, then I'd say so....

Maybe this is one for the NIC EIC tech support line???

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Thats what i was thinking

 

[kme]

Think I`d check with them, unless you want to rod and RCD em!

Wouldn`t think the bollard`s fixing to earth was low enough??

Besides, if the protective glass is missing / damaged, they`re for the chop anyway, IMO

 

[Andy™]

If the EFLI to the bollard is good enough, treat that as your rod and RCD the start

failing that, rod each light, and RCD at start

or

expose SWA, attach constant pressure clamp to armour and run an earth to the bollard. cover join in resin joint. would still need TT'd at some point

 

[Evans Electric]

Sounds like right load of bollards to me Slips. I would thhink the bollard wiring is suspect. Scrap the lot and rewire the SWA with a 3 core. Connect through an RCD. Why is everone concerned about " exporting an earth " ?

deke

 

[NozSpark]

Sounds like right load of bollards to me Slips. I would thhink the bollard wiring is suspect. Scrap the lot and rewire the SWA with a 3 core. Connect through an RCD. Why is everone concerned about " exporting an earth " ? deke

It's not the fact of exporting the earth that is the problem,,,,, it's the complete lack of earth at the bollard that is the problem

In an ideal world where budgets are not a problem then the answer would be to rewire and replace the lot, but as they are obvously budget concious and still want them then what's the alternative?? (apart from isolating them that is!!)

 

[Evans Electric]

Point taken Noz, if the bollards are not earthed I reckon Slips should tell them of possible danger and isolate the circuit before someone gets a p****r , damp ground etc.

Deke

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

I have already written to the committee about this and have told them i will take one apart and report back. They ain't gone get rewired from scratch. I called the Nic tech line and they told me what i thought. A Rcd is fitted as an addition to an unstable earth. It can not be used instead of no earth. Looks like every light will have to have an earth rod. I did note yesterday on one light some alan bolts, So it looks like i can take apart a light. They have so much paint on did not notice on the others. Another point the tech line brought up was the joint inside the lights are unacessible and as i could not prove they were stable, then i should not reuse.

 

[Andy™]

Another point the tech line brought up was the joint inside the lights are unacessible and as i could not prove they were stable, then i should not reuse.

what if there crimped? does that mean the NIC dont allow crimped joint to be inaccessable?!

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

As there is no earth and is unaccesable its a very good point they may be unstable after 35 years of being in a garden. Even crimps. Its only their view on it to an enrolled member.