How to remove 2 switches from a 3-way lighting circuit

[MikeFloutier]

Hi, I’m a DIYer making some changes to our home lighting and need a little help.

We’re in a 7 year old house with a lot of unnecessary (for us) 2 and 3-way lighting.

I’ve been able to identify each switch, ie. 2-way or intermediate, and can see which 2-way (master) is fed from consumer unit.

I have a couple of questions:

1. Can I simply disconnect all the redundant wiring from the Master 2-way and then remove the unneeded subsidiary switches, and

2. As the Master 2-way is on a 4 gang switch unit, and each of the switches are inter-connected (L1>Com>L1>Com) does this complicate things?

Here’s a pic of the master, and also the Intermediate and the subsidiary 2-way…

 

[ProDave]

If you disconnect the brown, grey, black 3 core from the master switch that will remove the wiring to the intermediate and far end 2 way switch. But just doing that the light won't work. The remaining wires will be in L1 and L2.

To complete the process move the wire that is left in L2, to COM and all should be as you want it. You should then be able to remove the redundant switches and change for 1 gang if you want to tidy things up.

Well done for taking pictures and asking BEFORE you altered anything, too often the first we hear is a a picture of a jumble of disconnected wired and someone asking "where do they go".

P.S this is what I like about Click Mode, the ability to swap switch modules about to mix intermediate and 2 way on one switch plate.

 

[MikeFloutier]

If you disconnect the brown, grey, black 3 core from the master switch that will remove the wiring to the intermediate and far end 2 way switch. But just doing that the light won't work. The remaining wires will be in L1 and L2.

To complete the process move the wire that is left in L2, to COM and all should be as you want it. You should then be able to remove the redundant switches and change for 1 gang if you want to tidy things up.

Well done for taking pictures and asking BEFORE you altered anything, too often the first we hear is a a picture of a jumble of disconnected wired and someone asking "where do they go".

P.S this is what I like about Click Mode, the ability to swap switch modules about to mix intermediate and 2 way on one switch plate.

Very many thanks ProDave, you’ve made it so easy for me, what’s more it confirms my understanding from what I’ve Googled, which is a relief.

My only concern now is re my 4 gang Master panel. I’m unsure about the little brown “jumper” wires going from L1>Com>L1>Com. I’m assuming they are passing the live supply feed to each of the other 3 switches in the panel. Is this the case?

Also, do you know what the brown wire is exiting Common on the right hand “on/off” switch?

 

[ProDave]

What you have is the live feed looping to all the switches. One end will be the feed coming in to that bank of light switches and the other end will be live looping out to the next light switch somewhere else. Which one is the in and the out you would only determine by testing.

 

[MikeFloutier]

Thanks again ProDave, looks like I’m ready to go, new tester and bulbs arriving tomorrow and new dimmer switches on Wednesday. Yay, wife will be chuffed!

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Thanks again ProDave, looks like I’m ready to go, new tester and bulbs arriving tomorrow and new dimmer switches on Wednesday. Yay, wife will be chuffed!

Just a side note re your above comment...
Are your new dimmer switches LED compatible?

Traditional dimmer switches are NOT compatible with low power LED lamps.

And for reasons I still don't understand... far to many suppliers still sell dimmers that only work with traditional filament / halogen lamps!!!

I had a customer a few weeks ago who had bought a new decorative dimmer switch and a new LED dimmable light fitting...

Light fitting was all good.. But dimmer no good, as it was NOT LED compatible!!!!

Basically if it does not specifically state LED dimmer on the packaging..
you need to be looking at the "Minimum load"..
Traditional dimmers are typically 40 or 60watts minimum...
which are no good when you are using LED lamps that are typically nearer 5watts!

 

[MikeFloutier]

Just a side note re your above comment...
Are your new dimmer switches LED compatible?

Traditional dimmer switches are NOT compatible with low power LED lamps.

And for reasons I still don't understand... far to many suppliers still sell dimmers that only work with traditional filament / halogen lamps!!!

I had a customer a few weeks ago who had bought a new decorative dimmer switch and a new LED dimmable light fitting...

Light fitting was all good.. But dimmer no good, as it was NOT LED compatible!!!!

Basically if it does not specifically state LED dimmer on the packaging..
you need to be looking at the "Minimum load"..
Traditional dimmers are typically 40 or 60watts minimum...
which are no good when you are using LED lamps that are typically nearer 5watts!

Thanks Special Location, yes I did select dimmable LEDs and LED compatible dimmers, good tip. My only mistake, on the dimmer front, was getting carried away and ordering too many dimmers and no traditional 1 gang on/off switch. Hopefully I kept the one I replaced with a dimmer during a bathroom project .

Thanks again, you’ve been so helpful!

 

[Sidewinder]

You can use a 2 way as a 1 way.

 

[BorisJ]

Where are the earth wires that should (must) be connected to the earth terminal on those part metal switches?

 

[ProDave]

Where are the earth wires that should (must) be connected to the earth terminal on those part metal switches?

I was going to ask that, but it deviates from the actual question.

The OP did not wire it. An "electrician" did. Agreed it is wrong but perhaps just acceptable if the earths are terminated properly in the earth terminal of the metal back box and one of the screw lugs is fixed.

 

[kerching]

You can use a 2 way as a 1 way.

I carry Click plates on the van. The only single pole switches I carry are Intermediates as they can also be used as 1 ways and 2 ways. Lost count of the number of 'sparks' that don't know this, just saying

 

[MikeFloutier]

I was going to ask that, but it deviates from the actual question.

The OP did not wire it. An "electrician" did. Agreed it is wrong but perhaps just acceptable if the earths are terminated properly in the earth terminal of the metal back box and one of the screw lugs is fixed.

Thanks so much for pointing this out guys. I’ve just checked all 15 light switch panels in the house and 2 (including the 4 gang that’s been my main focus) we’re NOT earthed, either the face plate or the back box. Needless to say I’ve rectified this.

In the next day or two I’ll start on the sockets etc, at a quick count there are 40; deep joy .

Thanks again, I was so focussed on understanding/implementing the switch to leds and withdrawal of 2/3 ways that I totally missed this.

 

[MikeFloutier]

Sorry for mistaking Special Location for ProDave btw, all this learning, I need a rest

 

[ProDave]

That's shocking (could be quite literally) if the "electrician did not even connect the earth to the back box, let alone the nice little earth terminal on the switch plate.

I am sure he will have on the sockets, but you never know.....