I think I have found a renewable energy source

[benburton12]

Hello guys so I have this idea of mine which I can't get my head around and I need someone to tell me why it won't work, so let's say you have a fully pressurised tank of air and you blow that pressurised air at a turbine connected to a generator, ovisously the generator will then start to create a voltage and when connected to a battery it will charge it, what if you then use that charge from the battery to spin a motor that spins a piston which then repressurises the tank and it creates a cycle again, and also the pressurised air tank at this point is still got some of it's original pressurised air left inside and it won't get used up so fast, think how long it would take to empty a full can of deodorant, also the generator is a 3000w genarator spinning at 2000RPM and the motor is only 200w also spinning at 2000RPM, and even if you include all the losses such at heat, mechanical movement on friction and even sound, then the generator could be outputting let's say 2500w and that's still enough power there to supply the motor, you know what I mean, thank you guys and I hope someone can help me out here, thank you.

 

[Tony S]

Work out = power in + losses.

Losses being the downfall of all over unity machines.

I’ll not discourage you and wish you well on the road to making your first billion pounds.

 

[Andy™]

you cannot get more energy out than you put in

 

[Tony S]

 

[benburton12]

Hello guys so I have this idea of mine which I can't get my head around and I need someone to tell me why it won't work, so let's say you have a fully pressurised tank of air and you blow that pressurised air at a turbine connected to a generator, ovisously the generator will then start to create a voltage and when connected to a battery it will charge it, what if you then use that charge from the battery to spin a motor that spins a piston which then repressurises the tank and it creates a cycle again, and also the pressurised air tank at this point is still got some of it's original pressurised air left inside and it won't get used up so fast, think how long it would take to empty a full can of deodorant, also the generator is a 3000w genarator spinning at 2000RPM and the motor is only 200w also spinning at 2000RPM, and even if you include all the losses such at heat, mechanical movement on friction and even sound, then the generator could be outputting let's say 2500w and that's still enough power there to supply the motor, you know what I mean, thank you guys and I hope someone can help me out here, thank you.

But remember the compressed tank has all ready been fully compressed by using normal main power before hand, the motor is only automatically turned on when the compressor is half empty, so that would mean that the motor will feed off the battery only until the compressor is back to nearly full pressure then it will automatically turn off. Then the battery will carry on charging again properly, It seems the compressor is doing most of the work.

 

[benburton12]

you cannot get more energy out than you put in

But remember the compressed tank has all ready been fully compressed by using normal main power before hand, the motor is only automatically turned on when the compressor is half empty, so that would mean that the motor will feed off the battery only until the compressor is back to nearly full pressure then it will automatically turn off. Then the battery will carry on charging again properly, It seems the compressor is doing most of the work.

 

[ProDave]

Best of luck. When you have built it and tested it, come and tell us the result of the trials and how much energy you can "create"
 

 

[Tony S]

 

[benburton12]

Best of luck. When you have built it and tested it, come and tell us the result of the trials and how much energy you can "create"
 

I don't want to build it yet, I just want you to tell me how it won't work, I already know that it won't work but I just can't get my head around it, you know what I'm saying.

 

[Tony S]

Breaking the laws of thermodynamics will get you incarcerated for all eternity by the oil companies as I've pointed out to you before.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_perpetual_motion_machines 

It’s Saturday night again.

 

[Andy™]

I don't want to build it yet,

why not? the sooner you build it the sooner you will be a billionaire

also, compressed air is not very efficient in the first place

 

[benburton12]

why not? the sooner you build it the sooner you will be a billionaire

also, compressed air is not very efficient in the first place

Because I know it won't work, I came here so people could tell me why, giving details to this system only.

 

[M107]

you cannot get more energy out than you put in

Blimey do you know my old college lecturer............every lesson started with   "gentlemen what will we be if we get more energy out than we put in?...................that's right.... tango'd rich! you can not get out more than you put in"

 

[Manator]

I think that most replies have been very polite thus far. I think it is exemplary that you have not only thought out an idea, but without patent come on a public forum to discuss it.

I would not worry about anyone stealing your idea, after all it is over 100 years old.

Most perpetual engines are at best only 18% efficient, some do not even work at all. To produce any unit of energy, energy has to be converted, this is the problem. It almost always if not always takes more energy input than output.

The only way anything like this would work is if you come up with an idea that uses the energy produced more efficiently.

If you want to think out of the box, then think of waste products of energy conversion and how these can be harnessed to produce energy, how do you produce a motor that can run at almost infinity and still remain efficient? The motors we have today are at best only 80% efficient, get that as close to 100% and you will be on a winner.

 

[M107]

 I wonder if my dilithium crystal's will be o any use?

 

[benburton12]

I think that most replies have been very polite thus far. I think it is exemplary that you have not only thought out an idea, but without patent come on a public forum to discuss it.

I would not worry about anyone stealing your idea, after all it is over 100 years old.

Most perpetual engines are at best only 18% efficient, some do not even work at all. To produce any unit of energy, energy has to be converted, this is the problem. It almost always if not always takes more energy input than output.

The only way anything like this would work is if you come up with an idea that uses the energy produced more efficiently.

If you want to think out of the box, then think of waste products of energy conversion and how these can be harnessed to produce energy, how do you produce a motor that can run at almost infinity and still remain efficient? The motors we have today are at best only 80% efficient, get that as close to 100% and you will be on a winner.

Yea that's fair, it's always been on the back of my mind all the time and it always takes me slower then the average person to understand things like this, I just thought that the compressed air tank was doing most of the work you see and that the motor was just there to top the compressor up ONLY when needed, due a automatic device system build in, that was the part that I just couldn't get my head around.

 

[Andy™]

it will take a lot more energy to re-fill the tank than what was created emptying it. and if you somehow manage to get it to fill again, it would be useful as a useless box since as soon as you try to then get energy from it, you dont have enough to re-fill the tank

also, most spray cans dont work on compressed air either

 

[benburton12]

it will take a lot more energy to re-fill the tank than what was created emptying it. and if you somehow manage to get it to fill again, it would be useful as a useless box since as soon as you try to then get energy from it, you dont have enough to re-fill the tank

also, most spray cans dont work on compressed air either

Ahh right thank you for your answer, because I know compressed air can be very powerful and I thought it would be very power full to spin a contained turbine around very fast, in a secured fixture, and I thought that would creat enough power to either charge a battery real quick or just directly feed the motor at certain times.

 

[Manator]

To get the full tank of compressed air, let us say it takes 100 units of energy. Then let us release this energy step by step at 20 units of energy which is used to supply the motor.

Of this 20 units of energy half is wasted in conversion, that means that for every 20 units of energy produced, 10 will be wasted. If we look at the initial load (100) units of energy it is clear that within a very short time we are down to 50 units of energy (as a primary supply), it is in fact higher but I am trying to be optimistic.

So where does this waste go?

Energy when converted does not change, it has the same power as when produced, it is the way we use that energy. Our current systems can not harness the full power. For a perfect example look at the everyday (light bulb). If any heat is displayed then the energy used to produce the light is also being wasted by producing heat as a by product. Now produce a (light bulb) that under full load is cold to the touch, you will have found the holy grail in energy conversion.

 

[benburton12]

To get the full tank of compressed air, let us say it takes 100 units of energy. Then let us release this energy step by step at 20 units of energy which is used to supply the motor.

Of this 20 units of energy half is wasted in conversion, that means that for every 20 units of energy produced, 10 will be wasted. If we look at the initial load (100) units of energy it is clear that within a very short time we are down to 50 units of energy (as a primary supply), it is in fact higher but I am trying to be optimistic.

So where does this waste go?

Energy when converted does not change, it has the same power as when produced, it is the way we use that energy. Our current systems can not harness the full power. For a perfect example look at the everyday (light bulb). If any heat is displayed then the energy used to produce the light is also being wasted by producing heat as a by product. Now produce a (light bulb) that under full load is cold to the touch, you will have found the holy grail in energy conversion.

Ahh right, I get it now, thank you very much, you have actually now lifted a weight off my head, for so long I, like I said, just couldn't get my head around this, I understand now, cheers.