just a quick one about a rewire quote

[danny7299]

:coffeehall all just a quick question, i went to look at a rewire today , and the customer is tighter than a ducks bum hole.

he wants the bare basics , and doesnt wanted me to add "silly things" like mains powered smokes and extractors in bathrooms. i told his this is somthing he should think about and he told me unless i have to by law , he doesnt want it.

So , Does he have to have them on a rewire , i know he would on a new build , but how does he stand on a rewire.

Cheers all

 

[binky]

Complete re-wire requires 2 off smokes top and bottom of stairs minimum.

Don't think bathroom fans are regulatory for re-wire, but if re-furbishing bathroom, then I think they come under building regs part L

 

[danny7299]

cheers Binky

There not doing up the bathroom , just want it basically like for like.

 

[kme]

Complete re-wire requires 2 off smokes top and bottom of stairs minimum.

Actually, they require compliance with 5839-6, which is not always possible with that install.

Don't think bathroom fans are regulatory for re-wire, but if re-furbishing bathroom, then I think they come under building regs part L

Concur.

 

[PC Electrics]

The minimum building regs requirement for smokes is now a heat in the kitchen and smokes covering all exit routes (in a typical modest house this would be one smoke upstairs one downstairs, but in a larger house you may require two on the landing).

BRs require the inclusion of smokes when there is "material alteration". There is some debate over wether a rewire counts as such, but many believe it does.

 

[kme]

Agreed. Cat LD3, grade D.

Smoke is to be within 3.5M (or is it 3M? I misremember) of a bedroom doorway.

I would call a full rewire a material alteration, TBH

 

[steptoe]

LD3,

how would that differ from an LD2 on a standard house then KME.?

 

[Evans Electric]

The last rewire I did was an empty house , decorator was refurbing it for his daughter.

He told me he didn't want smoke detectors or bathroom fan , so I didn't install them . Not my house, not my daughter, not my problem . Thought he was a total merchant banker but there you go , he,s calling the shots not me.

The smoke detectors should have been the first things TBH .

 

[kme]

On a refurb, if you haven`t installed them, you can`t really notify it, as it isn`t compliant to building regs mate.

 

[kme]

Albert:

Coverage L1 SystemsIn an L1 System, all areas of the building should be covered. It is normal not to cover the following areas: Lavatories and Water Closets unless they contain electric hand dryers Voids less than 800mm in height

Coverage L2 SystemsCoverage of L2 systems depends on the vulnerability of the likely occupants and the probability of ignition of fires, ie:

Sleeping Areas without supervision

Areas having a high probability of ignition ie: day accommodation, store rooms, kitchens and plant rooms

Where occupants are especially vulnerable due to illness, age or are unfamiliar with the building. It should be noted that L2 systems always include L3 coverage.

Coverage L3 SystemsIn L3 systems, coverage should be provided for escape routes and any areas in which the occurrence of a fire would directly threaten escape routes. The following areas should therefore be covered:

Corridors, passages and circulation areas

Stairwells

The top of vertical risers

At each level within 1.5m of an access point to a lift shaft or other vertical riser

In all rooms opening onto an escape route

HTH

KME

(that is from 5839-1, which was all I had to hand, which is why it doesn`t look domestic).

LD2 is ALL circulation spaces, iirc

 

[Chr!s]

On a refurb, if you haven`t installed them, you can`t really notify it, as it isn`t compliant to building regs mate

I don't see why not, providing the electrical installation Comply's to part p and the other relevant regs

Why is the electrician responsible for the building all of a sudden?

Is an electrician a responsible person for the premises in this instance?

I think not.

 

[kme]

I don't see why not, providing the electrical installation Comply's to part p and the other relevant regs

The other relevant regs including other parts of building regs.

Part P is a bit of a misnomer - you`re certifying the works conform to building regs. - period.

Which, AFAIK, includes part F.

Or I am woofing up an oak again???

 

[Chr!s]

your woofing:^O

 

[Sidewinder]

Plumber,

I think you'll find that when you issue a "Part P" certificate (via your notification scheme) it is nothing of the sort.

I IS actually a "Building Regulations Completion Certificate" under your self-certification scheme as per your appointed competent persons controlling body.

GasSafe, FENSA, NICEIC, ELECSA etc. etc.

Thus you are certifying compliance with all the BR's relevant to the works you have done.

Paul

 

[Chr!s]

Thus you are certifying compliance with all the BR's relevant to the works you have done.

Thats what i said or was trying to say

I don't see why not, providing the electrical installation Comply's to part p and the other relevant regs

My point was that why is the electrician in the op responsible for bringing the premises up to current building regs, eg part b or part f, my point is hes not.

The work he carries out needs to comply

 

[Badger]

Agreed. Cat LD3, grade D.Smoke is to be within 3.5M (or is it 3M? I misremember) of a bedroom doorway.

I would call a full rewire a material alteration, TBH

ok guys then, say you go to a house that has smokes/heat detectors connected through the customers burglar alarm system, does that mean they have to have mains powered as well or is it acceptable to have the burglar alarm to act as a fire alarm system on a full rewire

 

[Sidewinder]

Badger,

Does the alarm system comply to the relevant standards for smokes/fire alarms?

If yes then OK, if no or unknown, then I would say no it does not!

Paul

 

[Lurch]

Smoke alarms connected to an alarm system do not comply as the cabling is not up to standard, i.e. the batteries are remote from the detectors and sounders and is not fireproof.

 

[Sidewinder]

Lurch,

The wiring "could" be installed in FP200 (etc.) thus it could comply with a remote battery system, however this and its compliance gets complex!

What you state is the best option for most people these days as it does not involve the level of detail design that is required to comply with statutory legislation to deviate from the "norm" thus it does not require the commenusrate level of competence to design and install such deviations from the "norm" which requires a significant level of comptence.

Paul

(Loon )

 

[Badger]

Smoke alarms connected to an alarm system do not comply as the cabling is not up to standard, i.e. the batteries are remote from the detectors and sounders and is not fireproof.

Oh right, ive learned something new there then, Many thanks for that useful inforamtion, Much appreciated Lurch.