karizma plus House Alarm Replacement

[mack625]

My house alarm which is a karizma plus has a NVM Check FLT, after unable to resolve the fault I've decided to replace the alarm system. As the wiring already installed I've decided to replace it with a new wired alarm system, Can anyone recommended a wired alarm system to replace it? I've looked as Texecom but wonder if the shock sensors from the karizma which are VIper GLX are compatible to use with the Texecom without purchasing new shock sensors as I have 11 of them fitted.

Thank you

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

You would have thought as the wiring is in place, it would be easy to swap to something else, sadly the karizma has an "inbuilt problem"
The karizma (and the Karizma plus) were sold on the fact that you can have up to 30 devices on ONE cable. In reality, you often found several lots of 2-6 devices on one cable and another 2-6 devices on another cable. Example. Front door contact, front door shock sensor, front door panic button and hall PIR all on a single 4 core cable. (As they are all in proximity to each other) Each device had an individual "iD biscuit" These biscuits did two things, they told the alarm panel which device had triggered (Or tampered, or missing) but they also saved installation time because you could run less cables. That is now your problem as anyone who installed a karizma / karizma plus used the fact you can have multiple sensors on one cable (That was the whole idea)
If you look at your viper, you will find there is a "Little white thing" inside it, with 3 wires connected to it (Blue, white and yellow) now look in another device, you will find the same thing.
As the Karizma / karizma plus is wired like this and uses biscuits, you will be better off re wiring the whole system
You could spend waste time seeing if you can get "some devices to work" but it is a lot of faffing around, you have to know what you are doing and you only need one cable to have too many devices and you have no hope.
Sorry to say, if it's a biscuit panel, it is best to rip all the cables out and rewire it.

You could opt for a wireless system, but that is another story.

If it helps, Karizma were not the only panel that used "biscuits" all of those that followed suit, have long gone.

Oh, the good news is, you can keep your devices if you can remove the biscuit with its wires. (Some later devices were designed to have the biscuit plug in.)

 

[mack625]

You would have thought as the wiring is in place, it would be easy to swap to something else, sadly the karizma has an "inbuilt problem"
The karizma (and the Karizma plus) were sold on the fact that you can have up to 30 devices on ONE cable. In reality, you often found several lots of 2-6 devices on one cable and another 2-6 devices on another cable. Example. Front door contact, front door shock sensor, front door panic button and hall PIR all on a single 4 core cable. (As they are all in proximity to each other) Each device had an individual "iD biscuit" These biscuits did two things, they told the alarm panel which device had triggered (Or tampered, or missing) but they also saved installation time because you could run less cables. That is now your problem as anyone who installed a karizma / karizma plus used the fact you can have multiple sensors on one cable (That was the whole idea)
If you look at your viper, you will find there is a "Little white thing" inside it, with 3 wires connected to it (Blue, white and yellow) now look in another device, you will find the same thing.
As the Karizma / karizma plus is wired like this and uses biscuits, you will be better off re wiring the whole system
You could spend waste time seeing if you can get "some devices to work" but it is a lot of faffing around, you have to know what you are doing and you only need one cable to have too many devices and you have no hope.
Sorry to say, if it's a biscuit panel, it is best to rip all the cables out and rewire it.

You could opt for a wireless system, but that is another story.

If it helps, Karizma were not the only panel that used "biscuits" all of those that followed suit, have long gone.

Oh, the good news is, you can keep your devices if you can remove the biscuit with its wires. (Some later devices were designed to have the biscuit plug in.)

Thank you for the detailed reply, it was very helpful. not as simple as I thought it would be to replace.

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

not as simple as I thought it would be to replace.

No, sadly not. FWIW there are lots of people in the same boat as yourself. It seems there was an "iD biscuit reader board" for a specific brand of panel, but even that has gone, but it could only read biscuits, it can not fix them, so in the long run, it did fill a gap, but it just prolonged the inevitable.

With regard to your system, don't take my word for it, open several of your devices, look and see if you can find a "biscuit" in each one. You are looking for a small white oblong thing, about the size of a sim card, but it has 3 wires on it. (White yellow and blue) In the middle (just below the top) is a black dot, that black dot has a number, that number is the number of the device.

You could also count how many devices you have, then open the main panel and count how many incoming cables there are. If say you have 10 devices in total, and you have 6 cables in the panel, you are out of luck, as you also have a bell cable, keypad cable and speaker cable (These have to have their own cable) so the example would mean you have 10 devices on 3 cables.
You may be very lucky, if you can, a clear picture of the inside of the panel would be nice.

 

[UNG]

A Texecom Premier Elite Panel with a 60iXD expander would be an easy fit to replace your karizma panel. The 60iXD expander would connect to your iD biscuit circuit(s) and the panel, the choice of panel would depend on how many iD devices you have connected as the Elite has the option of 24, 48, 88, 168 and 640 circuits and the 60iXD supports 2 loops of upto 30 devices (circuits) on each loop (obviously this is limited to fewer devices on the 24 / 48 panels)

 

[mack625]

A Texecom Premier Elite Panel with a 60iXD expander would be an easy fit to replace your karizma panel. The 60iXD expander would connect to your iD biscuit circuit(s) and the panel, the choice of panel would depend on how many iD devices you have connected as the Elite has the option of 24, 48, 88, 168 and 640 circuits and the 60iXD supports 2 loops of upto 30 devices (circuits) on each loop (obviously this is limited to fewer devices on the 24 / 48 panels)

Thank you for the suggestion of the Texecom 60iXD panel, the Premier Elite was the one I had been looking at.

 

[mack625]

No, sadly not. FWIW there are lots of people in the same boat as yourself. It seems there was an "iD biscuit reader board" for a specific brand of panel, but even that has gone, but it could only read biscuits, it can not fix them, so in the long run, it did fill a gap, but it just prolonged the inevitable.

With regard to your system, don't take my word for it, open several of your devices, look and see if you can find a "biscuit" in each one. You are looking for a small white oblong thing, about the size of a sim card, but it has 3 wires on it. (White yellow and blue) In the middle (just below the top) is a black dot, that black dot has a number, that number is the number of the device.

You could also count how many devices you have, then open the main panel and count how many incoming cables there are. If say you have 10 devices in total, and you have 6 cables in the panel, you are out of luck, as you also have a bell cable, keypad cable and speaker cable (These have to have their own cable) so the example would mean you have 10 devices on 3 cables.
You may be very lucky, if you can, a clear picture of the inside of the panel would be nice.

 

[mack625]

Sadly you're correct, only 4 cables going to the board.

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

Thanks for the pictures.

At the end of the day it is your choice, but I feel I should point out the following.

You can put what ever "Interface" you choose on the iD line, BUT it will not work on its own, here is a price breakdown of what else you will need.

Texecom iD Expander = £66 (This reads your biscuits)
Texecom main panel (Expander will not work without and you need one to accommodate all devices) £112
Texecom keypad (Panel will not work without one) £66

Total = £244

Or you could re wire it, and use a different panel, here are some costs.

Pyronix euro 46 = £123
Pyronix euro 46 keypad = £0, it comes in the box with the panel

Total = £123

Or

Galaxy Flex = £165
Galaxy flex keyapd = £0, it comes in the box with the panel

Total = £165

Or

Some other panel I have not looked at £? (But less than £244)

NOTES:
When your "biscuits" fail (That was part of the downfall) you will still have to rewire it to your expensive panel. It seems to me that you would be spending a lot of money to prolong the inevitable.
If I were in your boat (I am not) I would do as I suggested, re-wire everything (keep the detectors and bell)

100m 6 core alarm cable £14

Prices inc VAT, you may get some bits slightly cheaper elsewhere, but only a few £, unless you want the Texecom "diamond white" keypad for only £145 (No panel, just the keypad)

 

[UNG]

Thanks for the pictures.

At the end of the day it is your choice, but I feel I should point out the following.

You can put what ever "Interface" you choose on the iD line, BUT it will not work on its own, here is a price breakdown of what else you will need.

Texecom iD Expander = £66 (This reads your biscuits)
Texecom main panel (Expander will not work without and you need one to accommodate all devices) £112
Texecom keypad (Panel will not work without one) £66

Total = £244

The use of the Premier Elite with the 60 iXD is a simple swap with minimal disruption

If going down the route of rewiring a Texecom Premier Elite would probably be very cost effective with material and labour / time using standard expander(s) strategically placed on the existing iD cabled backbone with short runs to the existing detectors from the expanders

Or you could re wire it, and use a different panel, here are some costs.

Pyronix euro 46 = £123
Pyronix euro 46 keypad = £0, it comes in the box with the panel

Total = £123

So 10 wired zones and 64 wireless zones please explain how 11 vipers + any additional circuits are wired to that without multiple devices on a circuit

Or

Galaxy Flex = £165
Galaxy flex keyapd = £0, it comes in the box with the panel

Total = £165

The few suppliers I've looked at have limited or no stock with none available from Honeywell until the end of july

Or

Some other panel I have not looked at £? (But less than £244)

I think the use of iD on the failed system was a work round to connect a number of detection devices without using a more commercial multiple expander type panel, the problem now is that a replacement panel to connect more than 8 - 10 devices is heading into the lower end of the commercial market with costs to match

You forgot to add in the labour / time costs on all your options when promoting your dislike of the iD biscuits

NOTES:
When your "biscuits" fail (That was part of the downfall) you will still have to rewire it to your expensive panel. It seems to me that you would be spending a lot of money to prolong the inevitable.
If I were in your boat (I am not) I would do as I suggested, re-wire everything (keep the detectors and bell)

100m 6 core alarm cable £14

Prices inc VAT, you may get some bits slightly cheaper elsewhere, but only a few £, unless you want the Texecom "diamond white" keypad for only £145 (No panel, just the keypad)

So how often do the biscuits fail I know the Morris Marina has long since been dispatched to the scrap heap but the biscuits seem to have lasted alot longer

 

[mack625]

Thanks for the pictures.

At the end of the day it is your choice, but I feel I should point out the following.

You can put what ever "Interface" you choose on the iD line, BUT it will not work on its own, here is a price breakdown of what else you will need.

Texecom iD Expander = £66 (This reads your biscuits)
Texecom main panel (Expander will not work without and you need one to accommodate all devices) £112
Texecom keypad (Panel will not work without one) £66

Total = £244

Or you could re wire it, and use a different panel, here are some costs.

Pyronix euro 46 = £123
Pyronix euro 46 keypad = £0, it comes in the box with the panel

Total = £123

Or

Galaxy Flex = £165
Galaxy flex keyapd = £0, it comes in the box with the panel

Total = £165

Or

Some other panel I have not looked at £? (But less than £244)

NOTES:
When your "biscuits" fail (That was part of the downfall) you will still have to rewire it to your expensive panel. It seems to me that you would be spending a lot of money to prolong the inevitable.
If I were in your boat (I am not) I would do as I suggested, re-wire everything (keep the detectors and bell)

100m 6 core alarm cable £14

Prices inc VAT, you may get some bits slightly cheaper elsewhere, but only a few £, unless you want the Texecom "diamond white" keypad for only £145 (No panel, just the keypad)

Thank you for all the information you've given me, it has been a big help.

 

[mack625]

I've read some reviews saying it's best to install 8 core cable instead of 6 core in case needed. would you recommend this or just go with the 6 core?

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

If a cable gets damaged, you still should change all of it, so it would be your choice which cable you install.

 

[UNG]

I've read some reviews saying it's best to install 8 core cable instead of 6 core in case needed. would you recommend this or just go with the 6 core?

Not much point using 8 core unless you have a long run and need to double up the cores to reduce the volt drop on the cable

Locked to prevent being resurrected (again)