Lamp Wiring Help Please

[Alicew]

Hi,

I have been asked to make some of these marquee lights for a friends bar-

The frames are made of mdf, some of them will have aluminium edges like the H pictured

They take e14 240v incandescent bulbs at the moment

They are wired with 2 core wire push in plastic lamp holders that the fairground industry use to wire their fairground sign lights

They Have a ce approved 3amp 2 core plug with a rotary switch

My question is how do I make these safe and fit with regulation at 240v?

If I double insulate the wiring between the lamp holders will they be safe?

For the ones with aluminium edges do I have to use 3 core and earth the edges?

Or do I have to use a transformer to take the voltage down to 24vand buy some lower voltage bulbs?

I am planning to get them pat tested before they go in the bar but want to make sure I'm building them right first.

Thanks for your help,

Alice

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

Sorry, I don't understand the question because you said

They take e14 240v incandescent bulbs at the moment

But then you ask

.........how do I make these safe and fit with regulation at 240v

Which means they are already safe for 240v.

Any "PAT" test will be invalid, as PAT stands for "Portable Appliance Test" and they are not a portable appliance but a fixture.

I would how ever suggest you use either individual LEDs or LED tape.

 

[Sidewinder]

No pictures Alice.

As a new member you can't post pictures, it is to prevent spammers.

Your description is somewhat confusing.

If you are going to try to buy double insulated cable tthen it is going to prove very expensive, and you may need to get it soecially made so you wouldd be looking at very large minimum order quantities, typically 10's of km.

Do the CE marked lamp holders comply with UK requirements?

What do you mean by a 2 core plug?

 

[kerching]

Confused?.....me too!

My best interpretation is that he is using Festoon lighting lampholders that puncture the cable sheath!......i didnt know that they still made them, even less the special cable that they clipped to. This i think used to be insulated and sheathed Rubber Twin......like the old TRS

Just saying.....

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Confused?.....me too!

 he is using

Alice 

I don't live next door to her

Just saying.....

 

[kerching]

I thought you were quoting from The White Rabbit by the eponymous Jefferson Airplane.....it was on a constant loop when they were trying to Educate me at University


http://youtu.be/WANNqr-vcx0

 

[kerching]

So we have gone from a lighting question to a You tube music Vid

We are a diverse forum, are we not?

Just saying

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Although i don't know any Alice i know Jennie Lee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Seb-UZyUAkk

 

[Alicew]

Hi!

Thanks for the replies!! Liking the video. Sorry to confuse everyone! I can't post links so if anyone has the patience I've written the search terms to show what I'm using. Thanks so much for your help.

There are examples of what I'm trying to make by searching-

Goodwin and Goodwin custom signage

They are indeed festoon lighting lampholders that puncture the cable sheath-

Rue amusement lighting amusement lamp holders

I am using per wired plugs with a rotary switch here-

Cords n cable prewired plugs

I know the lampholders are safe for 240v bulbs but my question is about the wiring.

I don't think its safe to have lighting cable with one layer of insulation running from bulb to bulb at the back of the signs.

How would I go about making it safe?

Would using this double insulated lighting cable do the job?

electrical wholesaler double insulated lighting cable

Or would you recommend using a transformer and stepping the voltages down to 24v as well?

I hope that is less confusing. Thanks for your help!

Alice

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

I had a look at that website. I recently made up some signs like that for a display company in Walthamstow. We used the same screw on lampholders with a special twin rubber flex , forgotten the code but remember it was expensive. This flex was taken directly into the switch and a normal flex out to a 13a plug. I dont understand where you need any single cable ?

The cable we used was 6192P from here

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=twin%20rubber%20flex%20for%20festoon%20lighting&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CEsQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.caledonian-cables.co.uk%2FZipped%2FPDF%2FSurface%2520Wiring%2520Cables.pdf&ei=DEb3UuiqKsGV7Aan_ICgBg&usg=AFQjCNGe4ue44FQUCEQrEeNEzBXJWTKhuw&sig2=-mk-Y6XcTDgHzGhQxfq3UA&bvm=bv.60983673,d.d2k

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

AliceW means lights like

and

I looked at the links and these are the lights.

AliceW, the problem I have with what you propose is the heat given off by the lamps, that said you could use "pygmy lamps" and normal pendant lamp holders (Secured by the lamp holder skirt) and you could then use "singles or twin flex to connect them provided the back of the sign is covered.

However, even with pygmy lamps there is still the consideration of heat.

BUT if you look closely at the signs pictured, they are not what they appear to be.

Above is a close up of a similar sign to the ones you mentioned, and you can clearly see that they are NOT 240v lights. To be honest, I don't know exactly what they are, I would guess 24 or even 12v, in either case, using these is a much better and safe idea.

The question is what are they called and who makes them, lets see who can find out first.

 

[Blue Duck]

I cant make out the lamps in the picture but in these modern times I would be using leds either 12/24v transformer or even battery? uses less energy makes less heat I would also be trawling ebay looking for those fairground style lamp covers.

Using that many 240v lamps would certainly be warm. ..

Did I say ' I' enough? lol

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

After some searching I have the answer.

The generic name for them is "Turbo Lights", so AliceW if you want to use your favourite search engine and use the term "turbo lights" you will find a whole variety of them.

Some are indeed 240v, but only 10 watt, I even found some that are 24v 3 W. You can also get LED versions (sold in kits) and LED replacement lamps

I would still suggest my original idea of using LED tape, not only is it cheaper, but you can also have RGB tape which means that the final light can be almost any colour you can think of, and you can even set it to change colour.

Guess it depends on what your friend wants.

As an aside, LED's will last longer than normal incandescent lamps as well as being safer.

 

[NozSpark]

I don't know about LEDs lasting longer... they should, but my parents have some (Deltec) that have failed (several blocks of 3 LEDs along the length) after only just over 12 months after me installing them..

I've also had a driver fail on a different job

Thankfully in both cases I'm getting the replacement parts FOC, however it'll still cost me my time

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

Ok, then. LED's should last longer than normal lamps. (But there is no g'tee they will) ray