LED bulbs glow brightly and won't turn off (Varilight IR dimmer switch).

[ElectricAlex]

Hi

This is a follow up from this thread:

I have created a new thread as this is an entirely different issue.

I am using Philips LED Classic 5.5 W GU10 Glass Dimmable Spot Lights everywhere.

A) One room has three of these bulbs totalling 16.5W on one light fitting.

B) Another room has 6 bulbs totalling 33W.

C) Another room similar to (B) has 6 bulbs totalling 33W.

In the case of room (B) and room (C), both 33 watts, when turning off the Varilight IR dimmer a single LED would light up. This was fixed by wiring in parallel a 1 watt "glowlight" resistor. So all good.

My continuing issue is with room (A) at 16.5 watts. I have also put in a GlowFix and whenever there is a varilight IR dimmer installed it simply won't turn off. All LEDs glow very brightly. I have already returned one Varilight IR dimmer switch as faulty and the replacement exhibits similar behaviour.

Now if I put in the original crabtree series 7000 dimmer (without IR) into room (A) there are no issues at all. Any ideas on how I can get the Varilight IR to work as intended? Remember they work done on my other rooms with identical bulbs (just more of them).

Thanks..

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

You have answered your own question, you have not got enough load for the dimmer to be able to operate correctly.

Dimmers have a maximum and minimum load. It would appear that your 3 lamps are not enough to correctly operate your dimmer, you have shown this by the fact the dimmer does work with 6 lamps

To "cure" your problem you need to give the dimmer more load, which you can do by...........adding more lamps, you could add a "dummy load" but this would be a resistor which would just give off heat, which would then need dissipating.

 

[ElectricAlex]

You have answered your own question, you have not got enough load for the dimmer to be able to operate correctly.

Dimmers have a maximum and minimum load. It would appear that your 3 lamps are not enough to correctly operate your dimmer, you have shown this by the fact the dimmer does work with 6 lamps

To "cure" your problem you need to give the dimmer more load, which you can do by...........adding more lamps, you could add a "dummy load" but this would be a resistor which would just give off heat, which would then need dissipating.

As I stated I have already added a "glowfix" (well I called it a glowlight resistor by mistake once) which worked for the other rooms. It also works when I use the crabtree dimmer fine (instead):

https://www.myswitchshop.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=12692

Also if the load was too small the lamps would not shine really really bright all the time, the dimmer functionality is non existent. I am aware of the behaviour of LEDs when the load is too small. This is a different issue.

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

So what happens if you swap over two dimmers? Does the "fault" go with the dimmer or stay in the same room?

 

[ElectricAlex]

It did with the one I sent back, the behaviour followed with the dimmer. I've yet to try with the replacement.. will report back.

 

[Doc Hudson]

As I stated I have already added a "glowfix" (well I called it a glowlight resistor by mistake once) which worked for the other rooms. It also works when I use the crabtree dimmer fine (instead):

https://www.myswitchshop.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=12692

Also if the load was too small the lamps would not shine really really bright all the time, the dimmer functionality is non existent. I am aware of the behaviour of LEDs when the load is too small. This is a different issue.

I was under the impression that the prime function of the glowfix is to prevent LED's glowing when the switch should be off. Not compensate for insufficient load when using low wattage LED's.

from your link;

The Glow Fix Module. The Varilight Glow Fix load regulator is designed to improve the dimming performance of LED lamps when used in combination with V-Pro and V-Pro Eclique LED Dimming Series.

A GlowFix can improve performance in two ways:-

1. With certain combinations of lamps the addition of a GlowFix load regulator can improve the stability of the lamps at a lower brightness level, extending the dimming range when used with both V-Pro and V-Pro Eclique dimmers.

2. Due to the extremely low current required to illuminate them, some LED lamps will remain illuminated at a low glow when remote control dimmers (such as Varilight's V-Pro Eclique dimmers)are switched off. This is because remote control dimmers draw a tiny current in standby mode so that they are ready to receive a signal from the handset. This tiny current may be sufficient to illuminate LED lamps. The addition of just one GlowFix will solve this problem.

The Varilight GlowFix is super efficient, drawing less than 1 watt.

Fitting Instructions: Please see Instructions that are included with the YAGF. The GlowFix load regulator can be easily retrofitted by simply wiring it in parallel with any of the lamp fittings.
-Height (mm):23

-Width(mm):? 55

-For Use With Dimmable LEDs like Megaman's Candle LED to stop the glow when dimmer is turned off.

-Can improve the stability of LED lamps at lower brightness levels.
-Wiring Accessories PDF

I am not convinced it would have been a solution to your problem. Have you  tried measuring the actual load your lamps draw? although the packaging says 5.5watt are they?

Doc H.

 

[ElectricAlex]

OK.. to reiterate I am trying to get the Varilight IR to work in a particular room, other rooms it works fine. 

a) I have contacted Varilight and they stated a Glowfix would fix my problem for all rooms (they are aware of the number and Watts of LEDs).

b) As stated the glowfix and Varilight Dimmer works fine for the other rooms (without the glowfix a single LED lights up when turned off).

For the room with the issue (16.5W of LEDs):

c) If I put in a Crabtree dimmer (without glowfix) a single LED light will light up.
 

d) If I put in a Crabtree dimmer WITH a glowflix it will work fine (dim up and down and switch off). So this is OK.

e) This is the problem: If I put in a Varilight IR dimmer with glowfix, all LEDs will turn on very brightly and flicker (I don't even have to press the dimmer switch the LEDs are on as soon as I switch on the mains). It stays very bright and cannot be switched off. This was not the behaviour I was exhibiting before with a different dimmer (see c and d) so I don't think it's a minimum load problem.

UPDATE!
 

f) If I put the same Varilight IR dimmer from (e) into another room with twice as many LEDs (33W) I get the same behaviour as (e), all the LEDs glow very brightly and I don't even need to turn the dimmer on. Putting back the original Varilight IR dimmer for this room and all is working fine again.

CONCLUSION??
 

So on the basis of (e) and (f) I would assume I have yet another faulty dimmer switch as the behaviour follows the dimmer.

OR somehow this particular room is breaking dimmers - which is weird because the crabtree dimmer works fine, see (d).

Very odd.

 

[ElectricAlex]

I was under the impression that the prime function of the glowfix is to prevent LED's glowing when the switch should be off. Not compensate for insufficient load when using low wattage LED's.

from your link;

I am not convinced it would have been a solution to your problem. Have you  tried measuring the actual load your lamps draw? although the packaging says 5.5watt are they?

Doc H.

Here are the bulbs specs.
 

"I was under the impression that the prime function of the glowfix is to prevent LED's glowing when the switch should be off"

Please see my previous post.

That's exactly what this fixes with the other rooms, and they work without issue, see (b). It prevents the LED from glowing when the the dimmer is off. That works fine.

That's exactly what it fixes when I use a Crabtree dimmer, see (d). It prevents the LED from glowing when the the dimmer is off.  Scenario (d) works fine.

And please see (e) on my previous post. It's a completely different behaviour to what I've explained above. All the LEDs glow very brightly and I don't even need to turn the dimmer on. The behaviour happens with or without a glowfix installed and ONLY with Varilight IR dimmer.
 

(f) seems to suggest the issue issue is the dimmer itself. But I've had two dimmers in a row that have behaved like this (and one was returned).

I need to hire Columbo for this one perhaps? The scene of the crime isn't clear cut.

 

[Sharpend]

Get a third dimmer to replace this faulty one, put a known working dimmer onto this circuit and use new dimmer on larger circuit — see results ??

 

[Ardet R]

Perhaps if you were to try changing the mode of the dimmer this may help, even though they are meant to be trailing edge from the start it is possible this has been inadvertently changed since the other dimmers work as expected.

 

[ElectricAlex]

Perhaps if you were to try changing the mode of the dimmer this may help, even though they are meant to be trailing edge from the start it is possible this has been inadvertently changed since the other dimmers work as expected.

You need to turn the light on and off in sequence. As you can't even turn the lights off..?

Without any power they would reset to default wouldn't they? There is no backup battery.

Get a third dimmer to replace this faulty one, put a known working dimmer onto this circuit and use new dimmer on larger circuit — see results ??

Well the crabtree worked...

I get what you are saying however..

Hmmm..

I'll have to contact the suppliers again...