Lighting variations

[bhamoggy]

I've just finished my 2330 level 3 and only know the way to wire lights the way college has taught us

I've heard there's about 10 ways to wire lighting like feeding the switch instead of the pendant

Anyone got any diagrams to explain other variants to wire lights please

 

[monkey5]

theres some in the download section mate

 

[Evans Electric]

Can't follow that really.

Which method did the college teach you , Moggy?

 

[Robin Spark]

They would have only shown him 3 plate wiring method

 

[kme]

Please don`t be offended at my post, BUT:

A light needs a live and a neutral to work, and a continuous cpc to be safe. A a light is switched by breaking the live conductor; whilst the neutral (and cpc) remain connected.

"How to wire lighting" 101.

erm.....what`s the problem?

KME

 

[bhamoggy]

Can't follow that really.Which method did the college teach you , Moggy?

they only showed us the 3-plate method and joint box method.

ive been doing a rewire this week for first time with a guy thats been in the trade for 20 years and he was feeding the switch.

didnt really understand it cause we'd not been taught like that

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 09:30 ---------- Previous post was made at 09:16 ----------

theres some in the download section mate

all the ones in the d/l section are fed from the rose which is the method i know, not fed from the switch.

cheers

 

[ProDave]

It never ceases to amaze me that many electricians don't actually understand a circuit diagram, and don't understand how to wire something.

If you can only wire a lighting circuit by remembering which colour goes where in the one example you were taught, then I'm sorry, but you actually have no understanding of electrical circuits.

Get some paper, and start drawing circuit diagrams, and you will work it out, but better still you will begin to UNDERSTAND the flow of electricity from source to load.

Only when you can do that will you IMO be competent to do the design element of an installation.

Sorry if I'm offending anyone, I don't intend to, but I'm the old school, who believes an electrician should understand electrical circuits and current flow.

If you are stumped by "loop in the switch" on a new build, then you are going to have a tough time when you get called to an old house to fix a lighting problem where it's wired as a spider system back to one big junction box.

And do you know all you need to know about 2 way, 3 way and intermediate switches.

Sory if that sounds a rant, but I get the impression colleges are teaching you how to pass an exam these days, not how electrical circuits work and how to design them. :coat

 

[mikel]

It isn't moggy's fault the college haven't taught him properly at least he's asking about it and wants to learn. Perhaps the 'guy' he's doing the rewire with should be explaining it or moggy should have taken the oppertunity to ask him, but please don't just rant at the lad for aasking a question or he'll not be back.

 

[m4tty]

+1 at least he's on here asking questions and wants to learn. I think it's a joke that his college hasent taught him feed the switch ffs. When I was at college I was only taught 3 plate and feed the switch. Have used both methods on jobs but mainly feed switch for downlighters.

Like others have said bhmog draw it out on paper. LN&E are taken to switch. Live goes through switch and neutral is put into choc block then it carries on to light with live and earth. It's easier than 3 plate. Hth

 

[Megaohm7]

I noticed that you have completed 2330 lvl 3 so I'm assuming that you've completed lvl 2. On the final practical exam, you would have wired the lighting circuit a bit differently from what you describe..You will find downloads on here to help you as if you see how something is wired then you tend to understand it better.

 

[androiduk2002]

Well it gets even worse , I was only taught the 3 plate method for twin and earth cable and how to wire 2 way and intermediate in both twin and earth and singles using PVC/steel conduit.

I remember when i first joined this forum , being told there is no silly question just silly answers ..................

I have asked some very "silly questions" but have always either been told the answer to or pointed in the right direction to find the answer myself , could it be that those in power only want the 3 plate method to be used thus making it an industry standard .

As preivously said at least he has asked the question , rather than going on site without a clue , surely that alone shows he is trying and wants to be the best he can be.

Give the guy a break and try to see it from his point of view , for level 2 a full time student gets 2.5 days a week split between theory and practical an even student get 3 hours twice a week over 2 years , normally one session theory 1 session practical its not alot time , to learn everything we have to , so we learn the recognised methods , its not ideal I know but hey thats not our fault , blame the system , day students tend to be school leavers and are there in some cases as its something to do rather than wishing to learn , evening students (due to the commitment) tend to be mature students wanting a possible new career or want to better themselves in there excisting jobs.

As times are so bad at the moment we all know the chances of actually getting in the trade are slim especially if you are a mature student , so we use our time to get as mouch knowledge as possible hats off to Moggy for trying.

It might even help if he was at least told the names of the other methods then at least he might have a chance at finding the answer to his question! !

 

[m4tty]

So can any of you experienced guys teach us other ways apart from '3 plate' and 'feed the switch' if possible or is it a case of work it out when you come across it as it's too hard to explain. Cheers

 

[ProDave]

Sorry you are all taking my reply out of context.

I wasn't criticising the OP. I was criticising the college, for teaching him JUST a few example circuits, and spitting him out at the end of the course as an "electrician"

What the OP needs to ask, and we need to answer, is some instruction on actually drawing out electrical circuits, understanding current flow from live, via switches etc to the load, then via the return path back to neutral. Only then can he hope to understand how circuits work and understand how to design and implement any circuit configuration.

I haven't been to college for quite a number of years, but am dumbfounded if this is what they are teaching them. Old chaps like me that did a proper apprenticeship learned all of this and more, and came out actually understanding electrical circuits well, something that is unfortunately lacking from what the OP has experienced so far.

So what he needs is some example circuits of different types, but drawn out so he can understand the way the current flows.

I would appreciate him coming back and telling us in more detail his level of understanding, then we will know where to start without either confusing him, or insulting his intelligence by starting too simple.

 

[bhamoggy]

Well thanks to some of you guys for at least seeing it from my point,

I'm not a young kid out of college, I'm 43 with 15yrs plus as an engineer and a qualified locksmith, quite technical as you can see,

I decided to retrain a few years back so went to college twice a week after work to do level 2 which took 2 years and just finished level 3

All I was doing was enquiring.........don't think what I said gives anyone the right to slate what I've written

 

[ProDave]

To try and help, I've done some googling:

Loop in switch: Loop at Switch Lighting Circuits

Loop in Pendant Looped Ceiling Rose

And this explains the basic light switching configurations, not drawn out as an example circuit to copy, but rather as a functional diagram, so you can understand how the current flows, and understand the operation of the circuits Lighting Circuit diagrams for 1,2 and 3 way switching

Come back and tell us if any of that makes sense to you. If not what do you need help with?

Once you understand the functional circuits, and how the current flows, you can then design many different ways to achieve that physically, although loop in the light, and loop in the switch are the two most common.

On a related note, since your college seems to have given you only a limited set of knowledge, did they ever touch on the OLD wiring colours? would you know what to do if you encounter red and black, or red, yellow and blue cables? Again, not a criticism of your knowledge or abilities, it has just dawned on me if they are giving you such a limited training, they may fail to inform you of previous colours used in the past, so may leave you unprepared for the real world.

 

[bhamoggy]

Yes we know all about old colours etc, this year has been poor at college, had a total of 5 different tutors as people have left and they've had to get temps in, so no continuity in tutoring

Too much time was spent on motors, starters etc, more time could've been spent teaching things that would likely occur in the real world

Thanks for the links anyway

 

[androiduk2002]

I am sure I have heard people mention the spider method , this is one that I would like to know about , + and - of this method , how its done , Ive got a idea in my brain of what it is but would like to know for sure .

Sorry to hijack your thread Moggy

 

[Zeespark]

Ahh but moggy, motors are in the real world, I wouldn't question whether the motor knowledge is needed or not, but how much time is spent on them personally.

AndyGuinness

 

[ProDave]

Here's another one

Junction box wiring (one junction box per light) Understanding domestic electric lighting circuits (UK)

The spider system is basically the same, except instead of one junction box per light, you just have one huge junction box, where the connections for ALL the lights on one floor of the house are joined at one central point.

So you have one feed in. then a cable from the junction box to each switch, and a cable from the junction box to each light. that can be a LOT of cables. These junction boxes don't normally have fixed terminals, rather they are an empty box to house choc blocs or on even older installations, screwits.

I don't know of anyone wiring current installations with the spider system, but you will find a lot of old installations like that.

I still can't find a good web link describing it.

Spending a lot of your college time on motors, rather than lighting circuits would be good if you are looking for a job in a factory, but not good if you want to be a domestic sparky.

 

[Sidewinder]

Yes we know all about old colours etc, this year has been poor at college, had a total of 5 different tutors as people have left and they've had to get temps in, so no continuity in tutoringToo much time was spent on motors, starters etc, more time could've been spent teaching things that would likely occur in the real world

Thanks for the links anyway

bhamoggy,

It is ironic I know, but I actually spend more time on motor circuits than I do on lighting!

The "method" used for lighting does not bother me really, or what it's called, I always forget that!

Same as these S plan & Y plan and stuff with heating systems, I have no idea as to which is which, I just look at the circuit and work from there...

In fact I had never even heard the terms till I came on here!