Might be going to court!

[dave2]

I completed a job last Friday and the customer was unhappy about the cost. He thought I was too expensive and took too long to complete. We had agreed a day rate for the job at the beginning (

 

[steptoe]

Im concerned about the

 

[ProDave]

[No message]

 

[Cirrus]

Yup, the cash part may be a legal sticky point (unless you say that he wanted to pay cash and you were naturally going to put through the books of course ; -) ) I think that unless you have a written contract of sorts then you will be banging your head against a brick wall and believe me, having been to court over a similar amount recently (reclaiming money off a car dealer I bought off) it gets very, very expensive and I fear that the judge will look at the fact you have no contract and throw it out of court. Best bet is to negotiate with the customer n- not easy and painful but necessary. Going to court will cost you hundreds to recover a small amount and it takes on average a year for the case to come to court.

I always put on the bottom of my paperwork that ALL materials supplied by Cirrus remain the property of Cirrus until paid for in full. Not had cause to rip an installation out yet but if needed to then I would. (bring on the legal eagles who will now quote trespass law etc.)

Good luck but I don't see an easy way out of this.

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ProDave - most debt collection agencies will not instigate action unless you have the full paper trail in order.

 

[Theorysparky]

i am concerned also about the cash arrangement

even at

 

[Andy™]

a above, the 'cash' part may be a problem.

overall, the job does sounds 'cheap' for whats been done, but without more details its hard to say

 

[Apache]

There's no reason no to ask for payment in cash.

Is there any form of written contract, an estimate you gave him etc? Without that it becomes hard to prove anything.

I would send them a detailed invoice including money you have already being paid and make sure you add on the charges your bank makes for a returned cheque (with a reasonable admin fee). State payment due within 14 days of postmark and explain that after that interest will be added (state how much).

 

[dave2]

Thanks for the replies so far.

I cant see a problem with cash as all money recieved has gone through my books!

 

[Andy™]

Incidently I missed out the 2 external sockets and 4 interlinked smoke detectors!

maybe thats the problem?

as long as the cash price was proper, and not cash in hand, then there shouldnt be a problem with that

 

[paul b b]

I would have thought that the cash part should not be to much of a problem, unless he says he paid you more than he did.

i always give an estimate that is througly detailed and get them to sign t&c, i always state that this is for there benifit and that part p scams like you to to protect the customer but its more for me incase of this.

The only job that didnot pay the full balance was a cash job where they supplied materials, i had no invoices or terms, lucky it was only 650 (well i say only).

The problem with the gp paying day rate is they think you are dragging your feet, they dont understand what gois into the job.

Good luck

 

[Theorysparky]

Andy

Does he mean he didnt list them on his opening post ???

 

[kme]

And, just to clarify:

1. Do you have the original estimate of works in writing?

2. Have you notified to BRCS?

3. Have you issued BS5839-6 certs for the smokies?

4. Do you have an "end of job" invoice; showing all interim payments, materials costs, labour & balance?

Does the customer have copies of each of these?

"Ex-copper". That explains a lot.......

Why does the customer not want to pay? Does he have any issues with the work you`ve done? Is he happy that you`ve installed everything that he wanted, how he wanted it?

The price is the price. I don`t care (to a point) what you charged; except that

 

[apprentice87]

Hi all,

As has been said, the "ex copper" part says it all...... I would simply county court them right now, do it tonight, go to "moneyclaim" [google it] and that will sort it.

For a start off, it is illegal to stop a cheque, really seriously illegal, they are GUARANTEED to lose....

A cheque is a promise to pay, in much the same way as it says on a bank note; "i promise to pay the bearer on demand"

You stop a cheque and you are in BIG trouble, no matter what the reason.... If they are unhappy with the work, then they can always county court you....

They can no more stop the cheque, than you could break in and take their wiring away...

Google stopped cheque and "bills of exchange act"

Better still, go here; Cheque Rule - Legal Services from a Barrister

Prepare to laugh yourself silly...

Hope this helps, and be careful now, no claims for hernias incurred whilst laughing will be entertained!!!!

john....

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Remember now, read the link carefully, and you must sue not on the breach of contract, but on the provisions of the bills of exchange act... Mr policeman got a BIG shock coming.....

 

[kme]

You are scoobed BIG time for that little gem, mate. I did not know that.

Cracking link. Well done.

LMAO

 

[NozSpark]

I knewbit was illegal to write a cheque when you know that there are insufficient funds to cover the cheque, but I did not know that it was illegal to stop a cheque.

All I'll add is that this "ex copper" has shown that he has agreed to your terms by paying you as you go, cash is not a problem so long as you have given receipts, did you give an estimate of how many days the job would take at the start?, did he ever say or intimate that he thought that you were taking too long at any time during the works?

As the others have said I'd give him a bill showing the hours you attended site, the materials used (either add your markup or show it as a percentage), any stage payments made and finally the outstanding balance. Either hand deliver it (make sure it says hand delivered on the invoice) or send it recorded delivery. Make sure that it also states that he has 7 days to pay with a cleared payment (either cash, BACS or bankers draft) DO NOT ALLOW HIM TO MAKE CHEQUE PAYMENT. Also add that as soon as dd/mm/yyyy (7 days) has passed that the bill will be passed to a debt collector.

ALSO make sure that you have fully certifed and notified the job,,, state all reference numbers on your invoice

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WHATEVER YOU DO DO NOT CALL THE NEXT BILL AN "INVOICE"

call it a FINAL DEMAND and reference the invoice, if you call it an invoice it will give him some manouverability if you do end up with going for a CCJ or debt collectors

 

[dave2]

And, just to clarify:1. Do you have the original estimate of works in writing? No--day rate agreed as existing system was in terrible state and I was not prepared to make any alterations

2. Have you notified to BRCS? Yes

3. Have you issued BS5839-6 certs for the smokies? Yes but he does not have them

4. Do you have an "end of job" invoice; showing all interim payments, materials costs, labour & balance? Yes -he has a copy

Does the customer have copies of each of these?

"Ex-copper". That explains a lot.......

Why does the customer not want to pay? Does he have any issues with the work you`ve done? Is he happy that you`ve installed everything that he wanted, how he wanted it? He has no issues with the work quality

The price is the price. I don`t care (to a point) what you charged; except that

 

[Andy™]

if he doesnt have certs, then the job is not complete.

 

[dave2]

AndyDoes he mean he didnt list them on his opening post ???

Correct I missed them on my opening post.dave2

 

[Cirrus]

It isn't illegal to stop a cheque or financial institutions would not offer it as a paid service. However, as pointed out already - it is illegal to write a cheque knowing you have insufficient funds to cover it - not the case in point here I think. Please explore every avenue you can before going to the money claim online route as it will cost you a fortune, no guarantee you will get it back and it can take 12 months for the case to come to court. I have been there and even though I 'won' my case I actually ended up a grand out of pocket. It does happen and more often than not the judge will award a 50/50 ruling and that's when you feel the pinch!

 

[Evans Electric]

Whether you are cheap or dear has no bearing upon this , and cash has no bearing either (assuming you have entered it in your accounts) .

If he has no problems with the work carried out then he owes you the final payment .

Also being an ex-cop has no bearing either . ( More worrying if he was a relative of the Krays)

So , Small Claims Court I presume , or advice from a solicitor .