Never trust the test button on an RCD

[Sidewinder]

Ask the designer, or check the specification / standard, minimum would be 6kA without damage.

It depends on the exact model.

SRCD's not sure would have to check the BS.

 

[Rob_the_rich]

Mbrooke, I saw the red probe with a bit of the metal end showing and I saw your finger perilously close to the bare metal when pressing the test button. Couldn't you have used a plastic "finger" to test?

 

[Evans Electric]

I see. Your RCDs and socket RCDs, how much fault current are they designed to interrupt?

Or if you meant the design "trip" current , they are 30mA  in sockets  or fitted in boards .   I believe  over 30mA is deemed to be the "heart stopper" current through the body but not sure if thats true.  

Its always interesting to see how differently  things are done elsewhere.  

The UK now has RCD,s everywhere , our domestic boards  ( Consumer Units)  are now split across various RCDs to reduce the nuisance value so Upstairs sockets will be on a different RCD to Downstairs  ...same with lights. 

Or the combined MCB & RCD    (RCBO)  are used for each circuit .

We suddenly had an obsession with cables buried in walls being protected , folk drilling through them etc.  

 

[Sidewinder]

Or if you meant the design "trip" current , they are 30mA  in sockets  or fitted in boards .   I believe  over 30mA is deemed to be the "heart stopper" current through the body but not sure if thats true.  

Its always interesting to see how differently  things are done elsewhere.  

The UK now has RCD,s everywhere , our domestic boards  ( Consumer Units)  are now split across various RCDs to reduce the nuisance value so Upstairs sockets will be on a different RCD to Downstairs  ...same with lights. 

Or the combined MCB & RCD    (RCBO)  are used for each circuit .

We suddenly had an obsession with cables buried in walls being protected , folk drilling through them etc.  

Deke,

I took him to mean the Ics or Icn values, rather than the IDn.

I can't do capital delta in the forum software...

 

[Evans Electric]

I won't attempt one .....but anyway , when I read it I thought he meant the trip fault current rating TBH .  

Did  Mbrook say they were using 6mA   !!!? 

I imagine the US Regs  or are they called "Codes?"   would be interesting compared to ours. 

 

[Sidewinder]

Would you like to see some of the US regs Deke?

 

[Evans Electric]

I would ,   probably be thrown by the different meanings , I'm aware of some like  the Hot wire for live  & Ground for earth etc .

But yes I'd be interested ,   are you saying you have them  ?  

I need to log out now until later though.    

 

[Sidewinder]

I think that there is a set that can be downloaded somewhere.

I'll let you know.

 

[Evans Electric]

I look forward to hearing from you in due course ,   ( Blimey I've gone into typing a  quotation mode)

Best regards,

Deke

Evans Electric

Dekington Manor

West Midlands   

 

[Tony S]

Have fun with them, there's more cross references than 7671

 

[Mbrooke]

Mbrooke, I saw the red probe with a bit of the metal end showing and I saw your finger perilously close to the bare metal when pressing the test button. Couldn't you have used a plastic "finger" to test?

A plastic sleeve would prevent the leads from going in and touching the blades in the socket itself. I should have used a plastic rod or something, but I trusted myself enough not to get bit. And even if I do, 120 is just a tickle  

 

[Mbrooke]

I won't attempt one .....but anyway , when I read it I thought he meant the trip fault current rating TBH .  

Did  Mbrook say they were using 6mA   !!!? 

I imagine the US Regs  or are they called "Codes?"   would be interesting compared to ours. 

Yes, the target trip threshold is about 6ma as apposed to 30ma like in the UK. You have to keep in mind that GFCIs were first introduced to take care of 2 prong tools with metal casings becoming live. So the idea was to have very conservative electrocution protection. The down side however are electronics which as you would guess fry and become ineffective over time. I've seen 25 year old homes where nearly all of the GFCIs were found inoperative.

 

[Mbrooke]

I would ,   probably be thrown by the different meanings , I'm aware of some like  the Hot wire for live  & Ground for earth etc .

But yes I'd be interested ,   are you saying you have them  ?  

I need to log out now until later though.    

Here is the 2011 NEC:

https://archive.org/details/NationalElectricalCode

PDF version (ignore the cover, its technically incorrect as it goes to the Handbook version rather than the code itself) 

https://ia800503.us.archive.org/4/items/NationalElectricalCode/National Electrical Code.pdf

Here is what the cover is supposed to look like:

2014 can be viewed here for free after making a free account:

http://www.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/resources/free-access

The 2014 will be superseded by the 2017 next year. More pages, harder wording and even more useless gimmicks to be mandated. It would be easier to become a nuclear engineer at this point in time then trying to make sense of it all.

 

[Evans Electric]

Mbrooke I wondered if you were a Brit living in the US  and whether you found our UK interesting.  I ask because your spelling is the UK version  or is our spell checker correcting it. ? 

Oh and thanks for the Codes  ...I am now inundated with them as Tony S is sending some also. 

I'll have read of them later.

 

[Mbrooke]

Mbrooke I wondered if you were a Brit living in the US  and whether you found our UK interesting.  I ask because your spelling is the UK version  or is our spell checker correcting it. ? 

Oh and thanks for the Codes  ...I am now inundated with them as Tony S is sending some also. 

I'll have read of them later.

You would not be to far off in saying that, lol.  What the British often take for granted being they are the pioneers behind electrifying nearly every 50Hz country on earth. New Zealand, but have a peak starting at 0:59:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/T0m0tnCLSHY?feature=oembed







Have fun with the NEC. Be prepared for no EFLI, testing or other requirements. Just obfuscated rules and mandated gimmicks. And please be advised: You develop a very strong addiction for copper. I will attach a conversion table.   

 

[Mbrooke]

Table:

https://www.platt.com/CutSheets/Multiple/AWG Conductors.pdf

For example #14 is 2.08mm2, #12 3.31mm2, and #10 5.26mm2.

Look at "Area" for the exact mm2 equivalent. Most common wire we use is THHN and THHN/THWN-2 which is rated at 90*C.  

 

[Tony S]

Have fun with the NEC. Be prepared for no EFLI, testing or other requirements. Just obfuscated rules and mandated gimmicks. And please be advised: You develop a very strong addiction for copper. I will attach a conversion table.   

Don’t you ever drag me in to another argument over testing!

 

[Mbrooke]

Don’t you ever drag me in to another argument over testing!

I knew those guys were trolls, I just had no idea they received their PhD in doing it. Trust me, its like that with any topic which begins where their understanding of electrical theory ends.    :Computerproblem: My only fault was not seeing the size of the hornet's nest.