New Part P competent person scheme

[Bacon]

Any one heard of these?

Don't know how there fees compare to Nic or elecsa but seem reasonable.

Stroma - Competent Person Scheme (CPS) Fees | Certification and Training

 

[steptoe]

why dont we just all go back to the original competent person scheme of doing an apprenticeship,?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

erm.....

arn't these to do with enery efficiency stuff..

Stroma - Stroma Services | General Consultancy, Design, Energy Assessment & Contracting | Misc

Stroma - Stroma - Services for Building, Construction and Refubishment - Home | Front

for Part P you still need an Approved Gov't body..?

Stroma - BPEC Part P (Full Scope) Training provided by Stroma | Training - Electrical

 

[philbas]

why dont we just all go back to the original competent person scheme of doing an apprenticeship,?

Because there are no apprenticeship availible

 

[steptoe]

Maybe its because the market is saturated and there simply isnt the work out there.

 

[Zoro]

Maybe its because the market is saturated and there simply isnt the work out there.

The Industry is saturated, with around 130,000 people in the trade and 97,000 people every 12 months taking C&G Electrical Instalation exams, even if they are taking three each, it is a massive intake each year, based on Skill Shortage propaganda from the Schemes and the Training industries

 

[Evans Electric]

The Stroma thing is somewhat confusing . Is it just training ??? Are they a Part P provider or what? I thought there were just the five.

Another case for a common symbol like the Gas use.

 

[Terry W]

why dont we just all go back to the original competent person scheme of doing an apprenticeship,?

that system only worked when the home owner was bright enough to appoint a proper electrician who did not cut corners, instead of handyman/ charlatan

under the part p banner, should the home owner be bright enough to appoint a part p contractor they may get a competent person who has undertaken an apprenticeship, or the handyman/ charlatan who has undertaken a short course. The only real benefits for consumer is that should it all go very wrong there another bit of law to prosecute.

IMHO trades should be required to be licensed in the form of suitable qualifications for the work they under take, however does being an electrican make you competent to do data cabling or a fire alarm system ?

 

[kerching]

Here's a thought....prepares to be shot down in flames

Why not make it compulsory for all Electricians to be registered

Make ALL work notifiable

Only sell electrical materials to registered and qualified sparks

Stop the 'sheds' selling to all and sundry

BAN all TV makeover/improvement shows that have Electrical content

and whilst I am on a role...

make it a law that all caravan movements must be done between 2300 and 0530h

Making all those thieving politicians pay back every penny plus interest, then Jail them and take back ALL but the cheapest of their properties

Ban all the fast speaking twaddle at the end of the adverts trying to con us out of our money

Ban ambulance chasers

Ban 'where there's blame there is a fat robbing tw@ waiting to have you over' companies

Ban foreign adverts over dubbed badly into English

Make all people who live in a Country speak the language of said country

Ban Poncy overpriced food in overpriced eateries

.......................................rant put on hold until tomorrow................. :coat

 

[philbas]

under the part p banner, should the home owner be bright enough to appoint a part p contractor they may get a competent person who has undertaken an apprenticeship, or the handyman/ charlatan who has undertaken a short course.

Or they may get an incompetent person who has served an apprenticeship in makeing tea, or someone that put there own money into doing a short course because they really wanted to learn.

I attended a solar PV course last month, the course was advertised as suitable for practising electricians, which I am not (but it was free so why not take it).

On the course where 5 "experienced" electricians and 3 learners (including myself).

2 of the questions asked in the written exam involved ohms law.

All 5 of the "experienced electricians" complained that ohms law was not covered in the course material (4 of them got the questions wrong).

The three learners all got them correct, to honest I never even thought to look in the material , i just did the calculation.

If a so called time served electrician does not know ohms law without looking it up I have to question the value of the apprenticeship system.

Ok my rant over, I will hide behind the sofa and await the wrath of everyone

 

[Apache]

If a so called time served electrician does not know ohms law without looking it up I have to question the value of the apprenticeship system.

That is shocking!

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 10:03 ---------- Previous post was made at 09:54 ----------

Why not make it compulsory for all Electricians to be registered

Make ALL work notifiable

Only sell electrical materials to registered and qualified sparks

Stop the 'sheds' selling to all and sundry

BAN all TV makeover/improvement shows that have Electrical content

There's a few problems with that. The big one I see is the issue of desirability and advertising. People go into B&Q or watch these makeover programmes and see these fancy new downlights or LEDs etc, decide they want them and generate YOU work. If the great unwashed couldn't even see them you would have less work to do fitting them. Might be nice and quick just fitting a pendant light holder but surly the 'fancy' lighting is more profitable for you too!

I still stand by any persons right to do any work they want in their own home. If I chose to endanger myself I will. Personally I don't do anything I don't consider within my capabilities, but you can't legislate for idiots. What I don't want is someone who is not safe to call themselves an electrician, advertise and do work in anyone's home endangering anyone. That is what we need to stop, not me swapping a cracked faceplate FFS.

You can go out and buy any surgical instrument you want, buy an anaesthetic machine, operating table and suture materials, it's only if you start performing surgery you break any laws. It is completely unrealistic (and never going to happen) where you can't but electrical accessories freely. The retail arm is bigger and has more clout than a few disgruntled electricians.

 

[kerching]

Pach....[read this in the style of Andy Pitkin in the wheelchair on Little Britain please] "Yeah, i know".....just added it to promote a bit of lively discussion having had a carp day on the coalface.

When I had a retail side to the business , Xmas and Fathers' day were great. People buying drills , drilling things, then we we go around and repair the damage AND we also used to retail electrical Installation materials as well. So really I am [was] as bad as the rest. Consider myself admonished, bows head in shame, seeks forgivness from the Forumite Flickers........I will now go and seek my weatherproof outerwear and exit the forum........ :coat ........................ :Y

 

[Terry W]

Or they may get an incompetent person

hence saying may,

If a so called time served electrician does not know law without looking it up I have to question the value of the apprenticeship system.

The correct thing to do if unsure is to look the matter up, whether your a sparkes or solicitor

 

[philbas]

point 1)

If your going to quote me it would be nice if you would quote the entire sentence

Or they may get an incompetent person who has served an apprenticeship in makeing tea, or someone that put there own money into doing a short course because they really wanted to learn.

Not just the bit that suits you.

point 2)

Some laws are so basic they should not need to be looked up, do you pull out your copy of the highway code every time you come to traffic lights to see what the red light means?

 

[Terry W]

philbas,

I ain't picking a fight or anything, The point I'm trying to make is that "Electrican" covers a wide range of skills, I expect many in there day to day working may only erect systems designed & tested by others. The Electricans on your course could well be like this, or could well be (as I assume your implying) a set of muppets.

 

[philbas]

I'm not trying to pick a fight either

Electrican does indeed cover a wide range of skills, to answer one of your earlier posts I would be more than happy to install data cabels, haveing spent 20 years in IT support, fire alarms no i don't think I'm competent to do that at the moment although if I got the chance I would learn the rules and regs fairly fast.

I think the point I am trying to make is that "You have to be competent" but there is no real definition of competent

Its fairly easy to prove someone is not competent "the house goes up in flames", but much harder to prove they are competent "the house has NOT gone up in flames, YET".

I dont think the people on my course where a set of muppets, I think in 90% of cases they would do a very good job, what worries me is the 10% when they dont have the knowledge to realise that its an exception to the rules.

What also worries me is the view that an apprenticeship makes you an electrician (or a plumber, or a carpenter, or a brain surgoeon), we all know that a lot of people did there "time" putting up conduit or trunking.

5 years of putting up conduit does not make you a sparkie, nor I would add does 3 years of takeing exams, you need the combination of both.

 

[m4tty]

I think there's good and bad in all mate.

 

[kerching]

Ban to$$ers in cars with the music so loud you can hear it in the next street...better still , give them a sledge hammer and make them destroy the sound system and then the car [unless they do not own it]

Ban Nitrox injection into road cars and save it for those of us who know how to use it properly

Ban Bruce Forsyth

Ban all reality TV progs

Ban Bruce Forsyth

.........................rant will continue............... :coat

 

[martinxxxxxx]

What has Brucie done?

 

[johninlondon1]

On my course Level 2/3 we have people on the course that have failed every test (more or less), can't understand equations, percentages or transpose numbers into formulaes, don't know what fault currents are or RCD's after over a year of studying. I spoke to lecturer and asked how they had any chance of passing and he replied that they would get them through the course as the fees the college get are dependent on as many passes as possible. When I mentioned that wouldn't it be wrong to be sending out electricians to the wider world that didn't understand what electricity was and they would be a danger to themselves and every installation that they touched, he just shrugged his shoulders claiming it was how things were done these days.