non cert, certs (are 'logo headed certificates required?)

[ktguk]

anyone know why we have certs (installation/minor/PIRs) for sale by fluke, megger and other companys. when we have to be NIC, napit etc to sign off. who`s giving these certs out and are there any come backs. if not why bother paying subs for nic etc

 

[sellers]

certs can be used by anyone, work that falls under part p needs notification which is a different matter.

 

[m4tty]

if you go through building control and are not a scam member you could use them certs ?

 

[ianmacd]

Elecsa will accept any BS7671 compliant cert. Megger sell numbers for certs for use with their powersuite application. Fluke may well be the same. Others like Kewtech do BS7671 compliant certs in pads.

Not being NIC as im not that sadistic, I can not comment whether you HAVE to use their certs.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Elecsa will accept any BS7671 compliant cert. Megger sell numbers for certs for use with their powersuite application. Fluke may well be the same. Others like Kewtech do BS7671 compliant certs in pads. Not being NIC as im not that sadistic, I can not comment whether you HAVE to use their certs.

We keep hearing stories about NIC making up their own rules..

But as is often the case it is normally non-NIC electricians starting false rumors about what they "Allegedly say".

You do NOT have to use NIC headed Certs as an NIC member any more than you have to use, ELECSA, ECA, NAPIT, BSI certs if you are a member with those respective bodies.! :|

 

[Andy™]

you need to use a cert that complies with 7671. you do not have to use your scam providers

 

[ianmacd]

We keep hearing stories about NIC making up their own rules..But as is often the case it is normally non-NIC electricians starting false rumors about what they "Allegedly say".

You do NOT have to use NIC headed Certs as an NIC member any more than you have to use, ELECSA, ECA, NAPIT, BSI certs if you are a member with those respective bodies.! :|

I did say I could not comment as I didn't know.

 

[dave2]

You can use any certificate that you want provided all the information corresponds to the model forms laid down by BSi.

I'm with the NIC and have never used their expensive forms. I designed my own.

Dave

 

[ian932]

We keep hearing stories about NIC making up their own rules..But as is often the case it is normally non-NIC electricians starting false rumors about what they "Allegedly say".

You do NOT have to use NIC headed Certs as an NIC member any more than you have to use, ELECSA, ECA, NAPIT, BSI certs if you are a member with those respective bodies.! :|

Yeh I don't get it with the NIC bashing, I find them very helpful.

I use Easycert and don't use the NIC logo just my own company logo

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

anyone know why we have certs (installation/minor/PIRs) for sale by fluke, megger and other companys. when we have to be NIC, napit etc to sign off. who`s giving these certs out and are there any come backs. if not why bother paying subs for nic etc

You appear to be getting crossed terminology here Kt.

One the one hand talking about electrical certificates.

Other hand part P notifiable work! Two different beasties.

Long answer coming up. grab a coffee first :coffee

1/ Electrical work and certification.

All electrical work should be tested to verify its safe and your results written on a suitable certificate for the person ordering the work.

The essential minimum recommended detail is given in Appendix 6 of BS7671 on various model forms.

The various stages of verifying, inspecting, testing or writing up the certificates needs to be done by a competent person..

e.g.

Initial verification carried out by competent person Reg 610.5

Period inspection by competent person 621.4

Certificates written by competent person 631.4

So any person who has gained some suitable qualifications such as C&G's

can be considered "Competent" and is therefore able to install, test, certify their work in accordance with BS7671.

There is NO obligation to be a member of any approved contractor scheme.

2/ Building regulations Part P

This introduced the concept that certain types of electrical work, (but not all electrical work), must be notified to a local council building control and proof that it has been carried out in accordance with building regs AND BS7671 should be obtained for the homeowner so they can then acquire a building regulations compliance certificate for the amended work.

ANY competent person can issue an electrical certificate to a LABC to verify that some Part P notifiable work has been undertaken correctly. The LABC would need to verify the integrity of the contractors claims that they are competent. (a C&G certificate may be sufficient evidence.)

So providing a competent person can issue the essential test information on a suitable form, similar to the model forms, and pay any relevant building control fees. then the LABC can then issue a compliance certificate.

3/ Test meter manufactures forms

Because you only need to be competent, some electrical test meter manufactures produce suitable certificates for purchse...

I guess the assumption being... a person purchasing a test meter is probably going to do some tests and will therefore need to record those test results somewhere?

4/ The Approved contractor scheme providers:-

To make the notification process "easier" various electrical contractor bodies.. (already in existence well before Part p came along),

introduced various membership schemes allowing their "vetted and assessed contractors" to self certify their own work and notify jobs via their scheme provider. This saves the LABC the hassle of checking the credentials of hundreds of electrical contractors.

For the same reason the meter manufactures produce certificates the various contractor bodies also produce their own certificates..

You can choose to use their certificates if you so wish..

but you don't have to!

however, whichever scheme provider you register with, some may say it can look more professional to your customer if you have an additional Logo on your certificates to help verify your competence with electrical work!

hope that sort of puts things into context?

 

[Blue Fox]

I designed my own certs for Excel and use those, they have both mine and Elecsa logo on them, had my re-assesment thing a couple of weeks ago and assesor was very impressed with them, even commented that I should consider selling them! So if anyone wants a copy that will be

 

[Doc Hudson]

I designed my own certs for Excel and use those, they have both mine and Elecsa logo on them, had my re-assesment thing a couple of weeks ago and assesor was very impressed with them, even commented that I should consider selling them! So if anyone wants a copy that will be

 

[ianmacd]

Am I right in thinking that providing you comply with scheme membership you have authority to use your scheme logo's on any of your company paperwork? e.g. quote, invoices and certificates etc, So you can have professional company paperwork without excessive printing cost.

Doc H.

That is the case with elecsa. I have no reason to believe it would not also be true of NIC or Napit or any others.

 

[mushka]

You appear to be getting crossed terminology here Kt.One the one hand talking about electrical certificates.

Other hand part P notifiable work! Two different beasties.

Long answer coming up. grab a coffee first :coffee

1/ Electrical work and certification.

All electrical work should be tested to verify its safe and your results written on a suitable certificate for the person ordering the work.

The essential minimum recommended detail is given in Appendix 6 of BS7671 on various model forms.

The various stages of verifying, inspecting, testing or writing up the certificates needs to be done by a competent person..

e.g.

Initial verification carried out by competent person Reg 610.5

Period inspection by competent person 621.4

Certificates written by competent person 631.4

So any person who has gained some suitable qualifications such as C&G's

can be considered "Competent" and is therefore able to install, test, certify their work in accordance with BS7671.

There is is NO obligation to be a member of any approved contractor scheme.

2/ Building regulations Part P

This introduced the concept that certain types of electrical work, (but not all electrical work), must be notified to a local council building control and proof that it has been carried out in accordance with building regs AND BS7671 should be obtained for the homeowner so they can then acquire a building regulations compliance certificate for the amended work.

ANY competent person can issue an electrical certificate to a LABC to verify that some Part P notifiable work has been undertaken correctly. The LABC would need to verify the integrity of the contractors claims that they are competent. (a C&G certificate may be sufficient evidence.)

So providing a competent person can issue the essential test information on a suitable form, similar to the model forms, and pay any relevant building control fees. then the LABC can then issue a compliance certificate.

3/ Test meter manufactures forms

Because you only need to be competent, some electrical test meter manufactures produce suitable certificates for purchse...

I guess the assumption being... a person purchasing a test meter is probably going to do some tests and will therefore need to record those test results somewhere?

4/ The Approved contractor scheme providers:-

To make the notification process "easier" various electrical contractor bodies.. (already in existence well before Part p came along),

introduced various membership schemes allowing their "vetted and assessed contractors" to self certify their own work and notify jobs via their scheme provider. This saves the LABC the hassle of checking the credentials of hundreds of electrical contractors.

For the same reason the meter manufactures produce certificates the various contractor bodies also produce their own certificates..

You can choose to use their certificates if you so wish..

but you don't have to!

however, whichever scheme provider you register with, some may say it can look more professional to your customer if you have an additional Logo on your certificates to help verify your competence with electrical work!

hope that sort of puts things into context?

****BUMP*****

MODERATOR PLEASE MAKE THIS STICKY!!

really well put description of how all this certification stuff works.

brilliant!

Guinness for you mate!

 

[Doc Hudson]

****BUMP*****MODERATOR PLEASE MAKE THIS STICKY!!

really well put description of how all this certification stuff works.

brilliant!

Guinness for you mate!

As requested, stuck.

Doc H.

 

[leccyman]

Guys

With regards to certs, does anyone know where I can obtain a PIR for a leisure accomodation vehicle(caravan). I know they exist as I have seen a copy of the one the elctrician used last year on my caravan. I need the cert to do the testing myself.

thanks

ray

 

[Risteard]

If I understand your question correctly then you can get a copy of IEE forms from the IET website.

 

[Andy™]

GuysWith regards to certs, does anyone know where I can obtain a PIR for a leisure accomodation vehicle(caravan). I know they exist as I have seen a copy of the one the elctrician used last year on my caravan. I need the cert to do the testing myself.

thanks

ray

just use a normal cert, but mark it as caravan, address being caravan details etc

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

[quote name='Andy

 

[kme]

anyone know why we have certs (installation/minor/PIRs) for sale by fluke, megger and other companys. when we have to be NIC, napit etc to sign off. who`s giving these certs out and are there any come backs. if not why bother paying subs for nic etc

As I think has been adequately covered, anyone deemed "competent" can sign a cert.

What I didn`t see in my (admittedly brief) perusal of the thread, was customer requirement.

On occasion, certain customers will ( and have a right to) ask for a specific form; usually NIC. You`ll find this to be primarily some local authorities, large companies (their insurance usually specify they MUST use NICEIC), etc.

However, as has been said, you can use ANY cert that complies with 7671, including your own, as long as the customer has not specified otherwise.

KME