Old Dog

[Marvo]

We have an old dog (around 14-15yrs we think) that's had several lumps and bumps for a few years now, one on the top of it leg and one around the junction of its tail and it's ass for want of a better word. We had it at a vet about 12 months ago, it's glands were squeezed and it's toe nails cut etc but the lump remains.

Over the last year or so it's eyes have been getting cloudy and it's going deaf. Recently it's now becoming regularly incontinent and although it's walked in the garden around midnight, it often urinates on the floor before 6am. The urinating problem has been getting progressively worse over the last year. It's also taken to shivering intermttently and sometimes makes a strange look on it's face whilst it shivers. We've been treating it for some kind of mange skin disorder and fleas are a constant problem and always have been. The skin problems are not new either, they've been an issue as long as I can remember but sometimes disappear for months or even a year then come back again.

I'm painting a pretty bleak picture I know but the dog is still pretty lively, it still jumps around when someone arrives home and it still gives the postman a hard time through the gate occasionally, it's also still got a good appetite for its size and it doesn't welp when it's picked up.

I should point out we don't live in a cold climate so my concern is whether the shivering and facial expressions are a sign of acute pain. Also any advice you may have on the right time to put a dog out of it's misery would be appreciated. .

 

[Apache]

Wow - I wouldn't buy a big bag of dog food!

These things all come down to quality of life and that can be a hard thing to decide upon even with the dog in front of me. Sometimes a thorough examination by your vet will reveal a source of pain, but I will regularly try the animal on some painkillers to see if it makes a difference. There are some other medications that can increase bladder tone and others that help with blood flow to the brain and can make the world of difference to the dog's quality of life.

The lump sounds like an anal adenoma. Is the dog an uncastrated male?

Has he ever had his thyroid level checked?

Does the lump look like this:

 

[Marvo]

Well thanks for a very prompt reply, we're about half way through a 20 kilo bag of food so I might have to grind it into smaller pieces and start the cat eating it as well

The lump looks something similar to the photo although she's a spayed female. I don't think any thyroid checks were ever done, the dog has only seen a vet twice in 10 years that I know of and even then it was just for a service.

I've tried palpating most of the dog and there's no signs of anywhere being particularly tender, no abdominal lumps and everything seemed pretty kosher. The dog isn't keen on being handled at the best of times, it's always been somewhat snippy, it bites strangers and small children at the drop of a hat. As soon as you try flip it over for a look or even try to trim it's hair all hell breaks loose but it's never been too much of an issue because it's small and lightweight.

I like the idea of trying painkillers to see if we can gauge a level of pain. Can I use asprin or paracetomol or would there be something better that hopefully wouldn't require a script? I can weigh the dog if it will help with a recommendation or dosage.

Thanks

I tried to attach an image but there was a problem. The dog is something like this but older and less thoroughbred and maybe a little bigger although not much.

 

[a3]

Marvo - what problem was there with the image ?

There is a size limit in pixels and mB so that may be the issue ?

 

[Marvo]

I don't think it's a sixe problem, it was a google image thumbnail so only about 6-8kb.

I used the attachment system 'choose' button to browse to a gif on the desktop. Then when I use the 'Attach this file' button it errors with 'Error No file was selected for upload' in red text.

 

[Apache]

In the UK we have to used licensed veterinary medicines, but you are not in the UK.

Both aspirin and paracetamol have been used in dogs at 10mg/kg two or three times daily but I couldn't possibly recommend that you did so.

On the whole the proper 'doggy' painkillers tend to be a lot safer and more effective.

It's your call!

 

[Marvo]

Thanks again for the advice. If both paracetamol (or maybe something with anti-inflammatory content such as ibuprophen) and asprin were administered at those doses simultaneously would it be more effective as a painkiller and would the risks be higher?

Are the known side effects of these painkillers the same in dogs as they would be in people?

 

[Apache]

Ibuprofen is poisonousness to dogs!

In people they sometimes use aspirin and paracetamol concurrently but I have ZERO experience in animals. My gut feeling is you increase the risk of side effects with little increased benefit.

 

[Marvo]

Ibuprofen is poisonousness to dogs!

Good to know, it was just an idea that an anti-inflamatory might give better results.

Given that there's several unknowns and if the dog goes toes-up my quality of life will also take a turn for the worse I'll try a phonecall to the vet and see if I can persuade them to prescribe something, hopefully without needing to run a barrage of expensive tests.

 

[Apache]

How are you getting on?

 

[Marvo]

Well I caved in and took the ***** to the vet about a week ago after weighing up what the fallout might be if I medicated it myself and it croaked. 

She stuck a gloved finger up its bum and did the squeezing thing. A week previous I got my leather welding gauntlets out of my workshop and shaved the dog one day when wifey was out so the skin rash was visible in its full glory. She noticed it and gave the dog an injection of something which seems to have made no difference whatsoever. I asked about the pain issue and she reckoned the dog showed no outward signs of have pain and there was nothing in her inspection of the creature that gave her indication there could be pain. She put the incontinence squarely down to the age of the dog. The total cost was ZAR775.00 (about 60 UK Pounds) which included a 10% cash settlement discount and she refused to take guavas or bananas instead of cash or part thereof which was disappointing because I have thousands of them on my orchard trees at the moment  She wanted to see the dog again in a few months but she had no concrete reason other than to see how things were progressing. 

I had an issue with my browser and uploading attachments but now I have a workaround to the problem I'll attach a few images.

 

[Marvo]

IHere's a few images of the back end, she wouldn't stay still long enough to get the front (probably suspected another haircut was on the cards) so I'll try again later.

 

[Apache]

I'd be pretty sure your dog has hypothyroidism - an under active thyroid gland. The 'rat tail' is fairly classical.

It has been linked with incontinence.

I assume thyroid medication is only available on prescription in your country?

 

[Marvo]

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll look into the availability of the medication. Do you have any common brand names please, it might help me if I phone a few people?

I managed to grab a few photos of the full dog, the last one below in particular shows the lump around the base of the tail quite well. Is this lump also consistent with hypothyroidism?

What's the prognosis for hypothyroidism if it's left untreated?







*Edit* The attached images are very low res, I can email much higher res images if wil help.

Thanks again.

 

[Apache]

TBH - the prognosis for such an old dog is not great!

The drug is thyroxine, trade names include Soloxine, Leventa, Thyrofon, Forthyron...........

 

[Marvo]

Just a quick update. Itchy (figure after all your input you might as well be on first name terms with her) had something of a turn on Friday, she started doing a weird coughing thing which lasted about an hour on and off. She was also a bit wobbly on her feet and I was immediately nominated by the wife to take her back to the vet.

I actually went to a different vet because I couldn't get an appointment with the other one but the new vet seems like he's more on the ball than the old one, even though he didn't do the finger up the bum routine he gave her a thorough once over that took about 10 minutes . After the examination it turns out Itchy has left side heart failure which is becoming congestive. He also suggested that there may be a thyroid problem (as did yourself). He took blood for lab testing to confirm the thyroid thing and wanted me to go somewhere else with hi tech machinery where they could run a battery of heart tests. I managed to persuade him to hold off of the heart tests which were going to cost a fortune and just prescribe something please.

I left with a packet of pills (Ciplatec 5mg)  and a 100mg bottle of heart liquid (Phenylephrine 20mg/ml). Wifey's credit card was also ZAR1650.00 (circa120GBP) lighter. He needs to see Itchy again in a couple of weeks when the tests come back although in the interest of keeping costs down I'll rather try and negotiate over the phone with him when the time comes.

*Edit*

I forgot to say that the incontinence problem seems much better already. I'm glad because after an all time low at 1am one night last week when i climbed into bed and my pillow was wet, her life expectancy wasn't looking good. Touch wood there's been no incontinence for 3 days now.

 

[Apache]

Thanks for the update.

There are links between hypothyroidism and heart disease, and I have had cases where thyroid treatment has improved the heart.

Are you really in South Africa? I thought vet fees were dirt cheap over there? Suppose if that fee includes blood tests it is not so bad.

Please let me know the results.

 

[Marvo]

Yeah, I'm really in SA and I don't know who told you vet fees were cheap.... maybe in the Transkei or the middle of the Free State they are but not in Cape Town I'm afraid. The cost did include the blood test plus the courier fee and it was pretty much what I was expecting. The medication was actually pretty cheap thankfully. I'll post the test results when they arrive.  

 

[Marvo]

Okay the results are in, Itchy is officially suffering from hypothyroidism. I phoned the vet to try and avoid another consultation but he was one step ahead. I've got to pick up some tablets and then return several days after starting the medication with the dog. It's a bit tricky this time of year, I'm at the holiday house which is 2 hours away this week and I'm in and out of the country twice in the 2 weeks following so I'll probably only start the medication in mid January. Hopefully she can hold out till then. At the moment the incontinence is much better although it's not perfect and she's certainly on form after eating 3 of the kids Christmas presents from under the tree last night. She's been keeping a low profile after several thinly veiled death threats this morning and has spent most of the day in the hammock on the porch sleeping off 3/4 of a kilo of speckled eggs, a medium box of Ferrero Rocher chocolates and a tube of some jelly baby type sweets along with a considerable quantity of packaging and wrapping paper that she consumed last night.  

 

[Apache]

Okay the results are in, Itchy is officially suffering from hypothyroidism.

Has he ever had his thyroid level checked?

Not surprised. So long as you have enough tablets I'd prioritise starting them now and get the dog checked at the vets when you can. Personally I repeat bloods after about a month to make sure the dosage is adequate. 

It can take a while for the hair to grow back.

Appreciate the update.