Old double pole fuse

[New Venture!]

Hi guys.

Could anyone offer any advice re having an old main fuse changed? I'm doing some remedial work and an EICR on a flat for a customer. The main incomer fusing is via an old, unearthed steel double pole fuse box with a broken door. I've told my customer I am not prepared to sign off the EICR while this is in place. Now the fun. The DNO have refused to change it (nothing wrong with that, it's old but perfectly acceptable) and the energy supplier deny its their responsibility (it's before our meter, contact the DNO). The customer is understanding but starting to think I'm being a jobsworth. 

I've always considered double pole fusing to be unsafe and always changed it, but that was when I was in industry and I simply went ahead and did the work.

Do any of you guys have any advice or any reg I can quote to move this on? Been searching the yellow book but so far nothing of any significance.

 

[Andy™]

if it really is fused neutral then DNO will fix it, but that may simply be done by a solid link in the neutral. also if its TT then they will generally change any metal head to plastic

you also wont find anything in 7671 either since DNO stuff is covered by ESQCR. as such, DNO equipment is irrelevant to your EICR other than a note of your concerns but you cant really give an unsatisfactory report on something thats not covered. bit like saying the front door is the wrong colour so you wont 'sign off' the EICR

 

[New Venture!]

Cheers Andy, that's helpful. 

Maybe I am being a bit of a jobsworth!

 

[Murdoch]

The best thing you can do is to call the dno yourself and speak to them in sparky language!

 

[Blue Duck]

The best thing you can do is to call the dno yourself and speak to them in sparky language!

I just say it's rubber ducked, come fix it .

The people one the phones know a little at the best of times.

What I do is get their email addy and send em pictures which they then can show to their supervisor then it's up to them if it's urgent or not. Also it helps the guys on the ground too as they aren't going in blind.

 

[New Venture!]

Going to give them a call tomorrow to see if I can get anywhere. (Just spoken to customer). The fact the door to the fuse box is hanging off should be enough encouragement! 

Also customer is interested in a smart meter so might see if I can get anywhere by explaining to the supplier the current state of the fusing. 

 

[binky]

got a picture?

 

[Blue Duck]

smart meters are just a scam to get us to pay more for our energy, get him an owl for £7 off ebay.

The meter monkey may well report the damage to the DNO anyway but I wouldn't advise a smart meter to anyone, there are groups out there that claim they give you brain cancer.

 

[binky]

bet those groups all have mobile phones though.

 

[Andy™]

if the door is hanging off then phone them and tell them its got exposed live wiring and they will send someone to fix it

 

[misssweden]

The DNO have refused to change it (nothing wrong with that, it's old but perfectly acceptable) and the energy supplier deny its their responsibility (it's before our meter, contact the DNO).

Was it properly explained that the cutout is not just old, but actually broken? The age in itself doesn't warrant a cutout change but a potentially dangerous situation is normally dealt with pretty quickly. 

 

[New Venture!]

I'll take one of the fuse box next visit (first attempt too dark then phone battery died!) I also found this in the meter cupboard, distribution board for the other flats. Suspect this was installed privately when the building was divided up. No seal on door but I managed to fix the hinge at least! 

 

[Evans Electric]

I'm always amazed that probably a number of previous sparks have visited these premises but none of them felt it necessary to attend that door for instance , until New Venture turned up .     I've found this myself for years ,  go to a domestic job  , obvious that many sparks have added to the installation over the years but  not one of them has addressed , say,  the poor or non existing Ze  reading  .  

As Andy says ,  it is likely but not definite , that the DP  cut out  has a neutral link not a fuse .  Still not the best though ...link can be pulled and the installation assumed to be brown bread.  

 

[Tony S]

I'll take one of the fuse box next visit (first attempt too dark then phone battery died!) I also found this in the meter cupboard, distribution board for the other flats. Suspect this was installed privately when the building was divided up. No seal on door but I managed to fix the hinge at least! 

View attachment 7048

If that’s on the customer side it’s nothing to do with the DNO and to be honest other than the blobs of tape and it looks a bit rough where is the problem? Securing the access to the box is the customers problem. The line taps are no different to a small busbar chamber you would feed individual KMF’s off.

The cut out if it is CI has to be changed under the DNO’s obligation to their own standing orders. Some early phenolic plastic cut outs look like CI and will crack just the same.

DP fusing on a SP supply is a No No in anyone’s book.

Who attended to assess the cut out and were you there at the time?

 

[New Venture!]

This is the main (unmetered) incomer from which the other flats are tapped off. Agreed, it's old but I saw this type of thing plenty of times over the years. I posted a picture just for interest as this is how I found it in the services cupboard of the flat.

 

[Andy™]

if its in a block of flats, then the supply coming into the property is the DNO's responsibility, but the internal wiring between it and the meters is not always theirs

 

[New Venture!]

Looks very like the distribution install to each flat was done under a BNO agreement, the details of which seem to have been lost. I'll put my concerns in writing and walk away. 

 

[Tony S]

Good move