Over The Last Two Weeks...

[Sidewinder]

I have been on over 6 jobs in 10 days, and I don't go out every day if I can help it, where the client has said that they have had a "sparky" look at the job and there is a supply to the machine, but they don't know how/can't/won't/have no clue how/can't be bothered/or something else, to fault find any further.

TBH, my money is on the "don't know" how.

So, the clients have spent out in getting a "so called" electrician out, to find the fault, for them only to prove that there is a supply to the machine, then walk off.

Then they have called me out, either directly or via one of my customers who marks me up, by at least 30%, so the end users have ended up wasting what the have paid for the so called "spark" as they were incompetent, then ended up paying for a competent person to come and sort the job, and trust me, the rate I get charged at by my "customer" to their end users is eye watering, but, they would like me 24/7!

In fact, one so called electrician was incapable if installing and commissioning a Y/D starter correctly.

I can't believe that this is "acceptable" in the industry at the moment!

 

[sprocketflup]

hang on....haven't you had like a million years worth of extra special training?

Are you suggesting we should all be able to do what you can do? Coz Im pretty sure I cant

Id never get through a whole loaf......

 

[Sidewinder]

sproc, this stuff is pretty basic, Y/D starter stuff, DOL starters, and a few other such things, one has to ask why these guys are taking on jobs that they can't do?

 

[sprocketflup]

To you and countless others, but to someone who has spent his entire career in the domestic meerkat? Ive only done stuff like that with some bloke who eats a lot of biscuits and smells bad tbh

 

[steptoe]

so, your saying its not like the plc's etc messed up,

just simply the starters that have went smokeless?

and these guys cant fix that?

'cos Im with the monkee on the electronics bit,

but if its simply starters then you need a speshul course for that stuff,

its an extra 4 years 10 months and 3weeks that course..........

To you and countless others, but to someone who has spent his entire career in the domestic meerkat? Ive only done stuff like that with some bloke who eats a lot of biscuits and smells bad tbh

ah, but would you take on the job in the first place?

or would you know its not in your field of knowledge?

 

[sprocketflup]

Id certainly have a look if I was asked, and do the simple stuff like Sides said, or as much as I dared, then if no bright ideas came id be man enough to hold my hands up and say " Sorry guv"

Doubt id charge tho tbh

 

[Sidewinder]

No guys, I have had 6 electrical faults on machines in the last two weeks that "so called" electricians have been out on and could not fix.

I am going to try to see if I can down size some pictures of a starter and motors etc. that were done last weekend, and I had to "sort" yesterday as the client had been trying for like an hour every morning to start the fan unit so he could run his factory (LEV) and the starter was not even commissioned.

TBH, it is doubtful that it even complies with BS7671, 3x10mm sq SWA, and the "spark" said he had to "add" an earth as it did not have one, he pulled in a 4mm sq GY for the 15m of the run.

Even though the DB & the original circuit has not complied with BS7671 for possibly 20 years, and TBH, I doubt it was 20 years old!

Id certainly have a look if I was asked, and do the simple stuff like Sides said, or as much as I dared, then if no bright ideas came id be man enough to hold my hands up and say " Sorry guv"

Doubt id charge tho tbh

Oh these guys charged!

 

[steptoe]

:slap

I was on a site once[had only been with this firm for a couple of weeks] when this smart ass guy [the NICEIC QS] was always pushing me around, telling me what to do,

he was pulling in a 16mm 4core, 3+N and I mentioned to the apprentice I had,

'd'ya think he needs a seperate earth with that, app thought for a minute, tried to some some mental calcs, then reckoned no, so I said, go and ask him if he thinks he needs a seperate earth'

apprentice was 'walking past' a couple of minutes later and came back in a while,

'he just looked at me and glared' he said,

half an hour later the 'spark' was pulling the SWA back out, taped on a 25mm earth and spent the rest of the day pulling it back in,

boss came in the next day,

well you can guess what sort of smelly stuff was airborne after that,  :slap

my, how we laughed,,,,,,,,

 

[kme]

I`m surprised.....that you`re only now noticing the "state of the industry" mate.

This has been on the cards for a while - those that can do, can charge a premium for their services; whilst the wombles go out, fail to perform basic fault finding ( because fault finding isn`t covered in most cases!!), then walk away with their payment for services un-rendered.

I`ve NEVER billed for something I couldn`t fix - though others may do so - I can`t comment.

YOU`ve done the courses - seen the syllabus, and the general levels of intelligence around. Not being capable / bothered to make off terminations correctly and other basic stuff is commonplace now - hence the reason for many wholesalers to not keep 2 core SWA in stock.

Sad sign of the times bud, I`m afraid

 

[Sharpend]

So I've read this and I'm thinking that Sidey could have a nice little earner on the side here, a six week training course to become a qualified spark in industrial machines!!!!

It's my idea so I get to go free!

Mind you too many with the knowledge of Sidey would be detrimental to Sidey would it not??

 

[Evans Electric]

What is happening Sides , is people are phoning the number on the side of that shiny new van they see around ...it says Electrical Something-or-other on the side .   But who is he ?    A house basher who thinks he may make a buck by turning up ..who knows .

In my experience the trade is divided as such :-

Domestic Sparks  ( No experience of TP  whatsoever )  not their fault ..Horses for courses.

Conduit & trunking hands ..SWA  & Pyro  but don't ask them to fault find.   Horses.....

Site Sparks ..nailing it in ,..year after year on site ..ist fix ..2nd fix   Don't ask them to test /.fault find /certify ...don't send them to a breakdown..Horses...

My old mate Bob the Breakdown ,don't ask him to install .    Throws some SY Flex across to get it running.......... as 10 other people are phoning him with breakdowns........ so phones us to follow up. .

 

[sprocketflup]

Cant catch me...... :B-

 

[davetheglitz]

When I was employed by Mr Electric I was thrown in the deep end with a star delta starter for a compressor. Took a lot of on line research to get the thing working as it had never been installed properly in the first place. Scary Job as I'd hadn't looked at 3 phase for 30 years and things had moved on from the bespoke starters of the time.

I've got sympathy for both camps. When presented with a problem like that on the fly you are unlikely to have access to the information required so the safe thing is to run away. Your employer won't care and will charge for your time.

If you get involved you will gain experience but take time. I did this and received no thanks for doing so from my employers. Also you need to be so damn sure of what you are doing as there is potential for damage and safety.

Without extending yourself as an electrician experience can be groundhog day - but are you able to risk pushing the boundaries if there is potential for damage? Big grey area. Experience gained is proportional to equipment ruined!!

 

[Blue Duck]

Mr electric eh... the ones with the speshul matt's that don't get customers carpets dirty :slap my mate was working for one of their guy's and didn't like it.

I'm on groundhog day, can't wait for it to get cold so I can go find some nice overload faults.

 

[davetheglitz]

Mr Electric is a franchise and each one is different. My lot were pretty good generally and I learnt a lot on the job as at the time they were doing all the Home serve insurance callouts. There was always pressure to get sales off the back of the fallouts though which I didn't like and the pricing policy was through the roof! Did like the special mat though!!!

 

[Steve3948]

Reminds me of a job about 2 years ago, a customer call's and says the electric had all gone and they could not switch it back on, they called Mr Electric.

Guy turns up and they have front end RCD, determines fault is the lights, so he disconnects the circuit and get's all the rest of the installation back on.

Turns to the client and say's right all your power is back on that's £60.00 + Vat and you need to get someone in to find the fault now.

The customer said can you not do it then, and his reply was trust me you won't want to pay us to find it.

I reluctantly attended, first thing I asked has any work been done prior to the problem, well she replied my husband put a new light on the landing.

So first place to look and found he had screwed into the hole where the cables came through.

Why did she not tell the guy from Mr Electric and why did he not ask ??

 

[davetheglitz]

Like a lot of large companies working to a budget there is a timescale to solve problems. To have a Mr Electric franchise just required someone to invest 27k without any electrical knowledge or experience. Management pressure without knowledge of the job or capabilities of their employees. Customer service would have been to Home serve. The emergency was dealt with - job done and pressure on to get to the next job. Some franchises had a list of excuses not to do the job because the installation was not to current standards (but we can upgrade it for you - fixed price - you know what you will pay - new CU just 730 - bonding extra - and we use MK as that is the best!!!!!) Exploitation of the vulnerable! My lot in Cornwall weren't like that but many were and were rewarded for making huge profits! Glad I'm self employed now! Understand the Mr Electric bloke - he probably saved them a lot of money!

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

Why did she not tell the guy from Mr Electric and why did he not ask ??

He did not want to know because he did know how much he would have to charge, She thought that as the bloke infront of her was an electrician he would know that her husband had put up a new light.

I get a similar thing often. The customer assumes that although you have never been there before, that you know everything there is about her property etc, so they don't mention anything. I know this because I ask, and that is the answer I get

 

[Phoenix]

I get that as well, sent out to a chinese takeaway for lighting breaker tripping off as soon as reset, they watch me and move stuff out the way as I go around the lighting circuit trying to find the choke that had gone down, when I do find it and say something like "ah ha, here it is". I get told, "yes that one was making strange noises and a bad smell" ...... why the f*** did you not tell me that before!

Bloody fitting had 4x 1mm² twin and earths run over the top of the choke, all of which had been cooked as well so was reading as a live->earth fault from the DB end even with all the switches off (which had initially thrown me, and meant I had to guess where to start looking)

 

[ProDave]

Ah yes the customers that don't tell you the whole story.

Like a lighting fault in the kitchen.  I eventually trace it to a faulty cable in the flat roof.  Only then, when I tell the customer what I have found does she volunteer "the roof was stripped and re felted last week"