Part P changes possibly

[androiduk2002]

If what we was told by the senior lecturer at college (tonight) is to be believed, the requirements for becoming registered with part P scheme providers are changing.

Was not able to confim the date of the change, but one of the changes or maybe the only change is that anyone wishing to become Part P registered will HAVE to of completed the Level 3 Nvq as well as the level 2 and 3 technical certificates.

 

[Andy™]

that will mean many members not being able to re-new. and so scam providers will loose a lot of money. so either we end up paying even more, or nothing does change. or probably both

 

[M107]

This is probably to do with future company QS registrations, those already listed as a QS for their company will not be required to hold Level 3 Nvq as well as the level 2 and 3 technical certificates......so I belive.

Sure somebody started a thread on this a few weeks ago.

 

[Zeespark]

All that is apparently being asked for is a Level 3 qualification, 2330, 2381/2, 2391 or NVQ.

Andy

 

[Manator]

This has been discussed before as suggested

http://www.talk.electricianforum.co.uk/electrician-talk/13085-unqualified-sparks-you-may-borrowed-time.html

http://www.talk.electricianforum.co.uk/electrician-talk/13399-july-2011-nvq-minimum-join-scheme.html

http://www.talk.electricianforum.co.uk/electrician-talk/13058-2391-c-g.html

 

[androiduk2002]

One of the problems is the term " Fully Qualified Electrician" what actually makes you one ? Who actually say you are one ?

After spending some 12 hours on the telephone and quite a few emails over the past 48 hours to the likes of Summit Skills , City & Guilds and a few others , from what I am being told and have read it is as per the JIB. Level 2 2330 , Level 3 2330 , 2356 NVQ and the AM2.This is how it was when I first started in college in 2009. Now obviously this is an ever changing situation some some consideration must be taken into account for those that qualified before 2330 and the NVQ, I am assuming that this would be weighed up on each indivdual case.

My reasons for all this researching is due to the new changes and the introduction of the 2357 QCF which in laymans terms is a new course combining the level 2 2330 , level 3 2330 . 2356 NVQ Level 3 and the AM2.

Lets me turn the clock back to when I started my 2330 Level 2 , our first session at college our lecturer told us all to be fully qualified we had to do what I have said above , he also advised us the NVQ could be completed by working as a volunteer so you could gain the experience to allow you to complete a portfolio and give work to be assessed, we was then recommend if we couldnt get into the trade before hand, to get level 2 out the way as we would be more attractive to employers if we had it.

Right back to modern times........... so I am in the final few months of my Level 2 4 exams 10 weeks to do them in god its gonna get busy in my brain. :run So time to enquire about the 2356 NVQ , to our surprise we found out the 2356 registration was being closed as of 31st July 2011 (yesterday) we found this out Wednesday of last week ! ! , we also was told that we COULD NOT complete the NVQ by working as a volunteer as it was not the colleges policy.Although Summit Skills actually say it can be completed like that. bad day explode

But that was not a real issue as we could take what we have learnt so far and have it applied to the 2357 and do the NVQ section of that , could it really be this easy ................... NO It could and probably will mean extra class room time as the 2357 also covers modern technologys like PV , Wnid generation to name but a few of the extra areas although exactly what can not be confirmed as it is still a work in progress , also taken from the City & guilds website: There are no formal entry requirements for candidates undertaking this qualification. However, centres must ensure that candidates have the potential and opportunity to gain the qualification successfully.

Translated by my college you must be an "apprentice working a minimum of 30 hours a week with an employer". Ok so upon further investigations 99% of apprenticiships being offered are for 16-24 year olds and of course people are following goverment guidelines that an apprentice should be paid a minimum of ............

 

[Maplasterelec]

Guy from napit came into college the other week and told us you needed the 2330 level 3 and you then would have one year to achieve the 17th and the 2391.

 

[Theorysparky]

i have my assessment coming up in a few weeks i will get it from the horses mouth.

if they implement this then the industry will be in trouble and will not be able to police the part p

all the guys not having nvq 3 will go underground,,,,still do a good job produce certs but not notify

lets be honest how many customers give a t#ss ?????

please refer to my signature for further ref.

 

[androiduk2002]

Guy from napit came into college the other week and told us you needed the 2330 level 3 and you then would have one year to achieve the 17th and the 2391.

From what we have been told at college you DO NOT need to do 17th if you have studied 2330 Part 2 and 3 as the 2330 has only been availbe since 17th was introduced so we are learning 17th edition . Just another "grey area" to do with the electrical industry.

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i have my assessment coming up in a few weeks i will get it from the horses mouth.if they implement this then the industry will be in trouble and will not be able to police the part p

all the guys not having nvq 3 will go underground,,,,still do a good job produce certs but not notify

lets be honest how many customers give a t#ss ?????

please refer to my signature for further ref.

We all know that Part P is a joke in its self but us as law abiding citizens follow the rules, it was rushed into place and now they are making a start on fixing some of the problems , IMHO , this could be just the start , guys are already doing the work without notifiying and will continue to I am sure , but this is down to us , general public , and the governing bodies to be vigulant and report people not following the rules , but unfortunatley this is in a perfect world , one that does not excist in the real world......... Part P cannot be policed as such because again it relies on everyone being an honest law abiding citizen , the one thing you are making sure of by following the rules and being registered of by submiting to Building control your plans is making sure that YOU as safe and cannot have a knock on the door.

 

[Theorysparky]

I agree with your points

the problem lies not with the guys being qualified but with the customers knowing what the right and wrong way is of having electrical work done.

customer education is what is needed and that ain't going to happen !!!! so all the underground sparkies will be doing us out of work

its a vicious circle

 

[androiduk2002]

IMHO the best path and only real solution would be to make electricians on the same path as the old Corgi registration for gas engineers (now known as gas safe) , almost all hose owners know that to work on gas you MUST be corgi registered , it hasnt stopped people not complying but it has made home owners more aware than they are of Part P.

Maybe make training providers give out registration documents to newly qualified and to register the fact that they have passed a course with the governing body ?

 

[Sidewinder]

Trouble is guys, we don't kill enough people from electricity, and if we do it is rarely more than one at a time, perhaps a few due to a fire.

The gas boys can blow up whole buildings at a stroke possibly killing hundreds.

That is the "problem" electricity is not seen as dangerous enough to warrant the crack down.

This means we are either too good at what we do, or, the regs are so over engineered that even a poor install will comply?...

Please note, I am just giving "examples" / "ideas" here!"

Believe it or not it is the insurance companies that may come to our aid.

The small print on policies is now requiring valid certification / reporting of electrical works, and claims are being refused if all required info is not in place.

NO matter what the claim is for, often ins companies are asking for all H&S & maintenance docs and lack of the statutory or their required docs is enough to refuse to pay out on perhaps a claim unrelated to the missing docs, but, you are in breach of your policy terms therefore they are legally entitled to refuse to pay out.

One to watch out for.

Perhaps check your own policies too!

 

[S60TEM]

my house insurance is fine, I tested my house myself and got 9+ years before the next one

 

[Zeespark]

A few points to remember about Part P/NVQ:

To achieve an NVQ normally, a mixture of domestic, commercial, and industrial jobs are needed. So if you are just rewiring houses, this can be a problem to obtain.

NVQ signatures have been forged on a wholesale basis, at leat at My old college and employer, rendering them useless in My view.

Andy

 

[Manator]

Very true sidewinder, I have just completed a rewire on a large premises, the file I handed over at the end detailed all the work that was carried out, the part numbers and descriptions of materials used, the as fitted drawings, the certificates, the PI and PL insurance certificates, the risk assessments and method statements etc;

Yes Zeespark I have come across forged signatures before, will this now happen on a broader scale ? Possibly I would say.

 

[Zeespark]

So it makes a complete mockery of the industry? I would say so, Summit Skills need to get their house in order and fast. If something was to happen because they screwed up the qualifications system, could they be held accountable? This really annoys Me, as I dont have either the NVQ or the 2391, yet I have been in and out of the industry for 13 years, yet I may have to quit doing a job, that for the most part I truely do love.

Andy

 

[ktguk]

This has been discussed before as suggestedhttp://www.talk.electricianforum.co.uk/electrician-talk/13085-unqualified-sparks-you-may-borrowed-time.html

http://www.talk.electricianforum.co.uk/electrician-talk/13399-july-2011-nvq-minimum-join-scheme.html

http://www.talk.electricianforum.co.uk/electrician-talk/13058-2391-c-g.html

good theres too many two week course "electricians" out there under cutting everyone

 

[Zeespark]

Yes KT, but then there are guys like Me, who, like I have said, dont have those, who will have to leave the industry, with not doing anything to harm it in the first place.

Andy

 

[ktguk]

i have my assessment coming up in a few weeks i will get it from the horses mouth.if they implement this then the industry will be in trouble and will not be able to police the part p

all the guys not having nvq 3 will go underground,,,,still do a good job produce certs but not notify

lets be honest how many customers give a t#ss ?????

please refer to my signature for further ref.

any sparks coming out of college now should have a nvq 3, thats whats required now and stops the quick course guys as its work based, used to be parts 1&2 and AM2. now its level 3 cert

2351 or 2330, regs, AM2 and nvq

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Yes KT, but then there are guys like Me, who, like I have said, dont have those, who will have to leave the industry, with not doing anything to harm it in the first place.Andy

you must have some certs from when you started so it shows youve been doing the job for awhile, and not just read about it or wired stuff to ply boards on a wall

 

[Zeespark]

I have worked for a large multinational, I have all My C&G barring 2391, but no NVQ, as I quit partly due to the fabrication of NVQ work around Me. I can install most things on bigger jobs, just dont have the NVQ to prove it.

Andy