Part P sign off problems - Advice needed

[killer_pigeon]

hello all , need some advice please and was advised to come here from another forum.

long story short

 

[ianmacd]

I am concluding the electrical work has been finished due to BCO coming round to inspect.

There are 2 types of certs here. Electrical Installation Certificate and a Part P compliance certificate. They are not the same. EIC is a record of tests and work undertaken by the sparks where the Part P compliance is a self declaration that the electrical work complies to relevant parts of the Building Regulations.

What the BCO actually needs is an EIC as the electrics should/could be notified though LABC directly rather than (in this case) NICEIC.

It is not acceptable for a spark (or anyone) to withhold an EIC due to non payment BUT since you did not order the work, the spark only has to supply this to the builder.

The reason NICEIC has no record is because he has not notified for Part P compliance yet which in itself is bad as that has to be done within 31 days of completion of the works.

I would contact the spark again and suggest he has a duty not to withhold the EIC and until an EIC is forthcoming you consider the installation unsafe (as you have no evidence it is safe) and as such you will be involving both NICEIC, Health and Safety and Citizens Advice to assist in making the installation safe.

 

[Apache]

Hello and welcome.

Glad you decided to post over here. These guys will keep you right.

 

[Andy™]

the main question is, is the electrical work completed? if its not completed, then the spark cannot issue EIC, and cannot be guilty of with-holding cert, if he cannot legally issue it in the first place

 

[Evans Electric]

Another wonder builder eh! Seem to think they have the right to ride roughshod over everyone they deal with , including sub-contractors who carry out work on trust.

Has the builder supplied FENSA certs for the windows , is there a gas cert required also I wonder . This highlights a grey area , sparks has contract with the builder only ,then all of a sudden he has to deal with the client , the builder has failed to pay him to test and certify the work , does he do it for nothing I ask .

Perhaps builders should be sued when they pull these strokes.

 

[killer_pigeon]

[quote name='Andy

 

[Sidewinder]

If the installation is energised then he must have tested otherwise tell the NICEIC he has energised the installation without testing.

What he should have told you is that the certs are with the builder, and he wants

 

[Evans Electric]

I don't know what to say TBH . Lets say the work was not complete , needed 2nd fix, builder has saddled up his horse and Yippy -Eye-Owed out of town without paying you .

Do you supply all the 2nd fix gear , fit it out ,replace the board, test it and issue a cert, for bugger all , while builder slips the bowline on his yatch and sails into the sunset with your money.

 

[Andy™]

His last words to me were that as soon as he got paid he would come back and do the test etc and that was over a year ago now

if its not tested, then the job isnt complete, and EIC cannot be issued.

but, if its not tested, it should not be energised

 

[Andy™]

Were the electrical works included in the planning application?

If so, then it is Building Control's responsibility to inspect and sign off on the work, not the electrician's.

another very important point there - LABC may be responsible for I&T. side note being there should have been an inspection at various stages. i.e first fix, so could be other complications. best go check your paperwork

 

[killer_pigeon]

At the moment, it would appear that you are in danger of receiving a non-compliance order from Building Control.Was planning permission applied for and granted for the extension?

Were the electrical works included in the planning application?

If so, then it is Building Control's responsibility to inspect and sign off on the work, not the electrician's.

planning was granted for extension, yes

electrical works were not included in application so its down to the electrician

 

[killer_pigeon]

If the installation is energised then he must have tested otherwise tell the NICEIC he has energised the installation without testing.What he should have told you is that the certs are with the builder, and he wants

 

[Badger]

id say the electricians at fault for not issuing testing paperwork upon changing fuseboard, as that should be the last things done the fuseboard that is before new circuits are energised thy should be tested, id tell the niceic he replaced the consumer unit with out even checking the electrics and basically is black mailling you!

 

[Badger]

also if its his boss that does the testing and paperwork, he must work for a compant, and so this in itself sounds abit dodgy, if he replaced the fuseboard, then how does he know the ring finals are complete with out testing.

 

[Nicky Tesla]

You originally said that one electrician cannot sign off another electricians work.

Well this is what would have happened here isn't it, if the boss was going to cert the work he himself didnot do.

The system should have been tested before it was energised and some of it before the fuseboard was even connected up. To energise the board without testing would be a breach of standards that the NICEIC should be concerned about.

Have you thought about suing the builders as they have built you an extension that hasnot been signed off. It is their responsibility if they contracted the electrician to do the work.

If you are building extensions, all site visits are included as well any electrical building control inspections.

For me, I would get someone else to produce an EIC but he/she will need to inspect all the cable routes as well as test, and so it may take some time to complete. You will not have to pay extra to the LABC for a visit or pay extra for the part p if you have already paid for the inspections etc for the extension as a whole. I myself got my own extension passed about 5 years after it had been built (dont ask me why), your file will simply be sitting on the shelf of uncompleted works.

 

[Andy™]

For me, I would get someone else to produce an EIC but he/she will need to inspect all the cable routes as well as test, and so it may take some time to complete.

good luck finding someone to issue an EIC for someone else's work.

 

[Lurch]

You originally said that one electrician cannot sign off another electricians work.Well this is what would have happened here isn't it, if the boss was going to cert the work he himself didnot do.

If they all work for the same company this is fine.

 

[kme]

+1 to Lurch above.

Also to Badger & Sidewinder for their comment - if the installation has been (re-)energised, with no testing carried out, how do you OR they know it is safe? You don`t. I`d go back to the NICEIC with that little nugget of information - don`t be fobbed off; they have a duty to deal with this.

KME

 

[Nicky Tesla]

[quote name='Andy

 

[ProDave]

I'm with others on this.

I assume you paid a builder for a full package to build an extension.

For that you expect them to do everything to a standard that building control accept and issue a completion certificate.

If building control are refusing to issue a completion certificate, then something is not right with what the builders have done.

So the builders are in breach of contract.

It does not matter to you who exactly is to blame. you paid the builder to do a job, your contract is with the builder, the builders obligation is to you.

As I understand it, you did not employ the electrician, the builder did. You have no contract with the electrician or obligation to pay him any money.

If the builder won't put right whatever defects are preventing the issue of the completion certificate, then he is in breach of contract, so you need to take him to the small claims court if necessary to get him to honour his contract.

EDIT:

Re reading the OP, it looks like the builder has done a runner, leaving you in the lurch, and the electrician unpaid. Do you have a home address for the builder? Have you contacted trading standards etc etc.

A further thought:

You haven't paid the builder his final payment yet have you? (please don't say you have)

When paying a builder for something that needs a completion certificate, you should always hold back a percentage until the completion certificate has been issued, only then do you know the work is completed to a satisfactory standard.

So you could just spend the money you have held back, to get the electrics sorted and tell the builder he can whistle for his final payment as he didn't complete the job.