Part P sign off problems - Advice needed

[Nicky Tesla]

If they all work for the same company this is fine.

Yes this is fine, but in reality, what is the difference. How does the QS know what the installers have been up to.

If the boss would have been happy to cert the installation after he was paid, it shows he believes it has been done properly so take a risk assessment on this. T:coffeealk to the customer about cable runs and check them/test them. Its just a bit more involved than a PIR.

 

[Andy™]

How does the QS know what the installers have been up to.

I would have thought he would know his staff well, and their work. but he wont know the work of someone else

and just because the boss does I&T doesnt mean he signs EIC for everything. may be 3 part EIC, with other signing construction

 

[Lurch]

Yes this is fine, but in reality, what is the difference. How does the QS know what the installers have been up to.

Well you're meant to employ people who you trust and know what they're up to, in the same way that the NICEIC\ELECSA etc... all know that their members know what they're doing. The whole industry is built on trust, which is why most of the paperwork involved isn;t worth the paper it's written on.

 

[Nicky Tesla]

Well you're meant to employ people who you trust and know what they're up to, in the same way that the NIC\ELECSA etc... all know that their members know what they're doing.

Well why shouldn't one NICEIC company trust another NICEIC companys work in that case

 

[Lurch]

Well why shouldn't one NICEIC company trust another NICEIC companys work in that case

Because without the paperwork who is to say who fitted what, and if you had the paperwork then there wouldn;t be a need to get the second NICEIC contractor in.

 

[Nicky Tesla]

wot?? did you read the rest of the thread stu

 

[Lurch]

wot?? did you read the rest of the thread stu

Yes, and I can;t see what you mean? Do you mean the fact that an NICEIC electrician has completed an electrical installation and not certificated it? Without a cert it could be wired in bell wire by the milkman or really neatly by the best sparks in the world, either way there's no cert so whether the installer is a member of a scheme or not is of no consequence.

 

[Nicky Tesla]

"Well you're meant to employ people who you trust and know what they're up to, in the same way that the NICEIC\ELECSA etc... all know that their members know what they're doing. The whole industry is built on trust."(from SJW)

why shouldn't one NICEIC company trust another NICEIC companys work in that case

"Without a cert it could be wired in bell wire by the milkman or really neatly by the best sparks in the world".(from SJW)

Which is why I said do an over involved PIR checking cable runs taking down fittings pulling on cables etc etc etc. You can even estimate on cable resistances which would show up bell wire, but you would have seen bell wire connected at an accessory. For a PIR you dont have to check 100% of the work but for this you would.

Charge double your day rate, sounds great to me!

 

[Lurch]

"Well you're meant to employ people who you trust and know what they're up to, in the same way that the NICEIC\ELECSA etc... all know that their members know what they're doing. The whole industry is built on trust."(from SJW)why shouldn't one NICEIC company trust another NICEIC companys work in that case

"Without a cert it could be wired in bell wire by the milkman or really neatly by the best sparks in the world".(from SJW)

Which is why I said do an over involved PIR checking cable runs taking down fittings pulling on cables etc etc etc. You can even estimate on cable resistances which would show up bell wire, but you would have seen bell wire connected at an accessory. For a PIR you dont have to check 100% of the work but for this you would.

Charge double your day rate, sounds great to me!

I think you've missed the point entirely.

 

[Nicky Tesla]

Someone has to pass it if the installer cannot, who knows he might have died or something. Does that mean the occupant can never ever ever get his extension passed?

Someones got to do it why not you?

 

[Lurch]

Someone has to pass it if the installer cannot, who knows he might have died or something. Does that mean the occupant can never ever ever get his extension passed?Someones got to do it why not you?

Firstly, I thought we were answering a specific query here, not wildly generalising.

Secondly, if someone dies part way through the job I would call those extenuating circumstances and I'm sure the BCO would understand.

Thirdly, refer to my last post (linked to point 1 really).

 

[Sidewinder]

The only "person" who is legally allowed to sign off the work in these situations to provide a BC completion cert is BC, it is down to them to arrange the I&T to suit their requirements.

IF they want all the cable routes opening up for inspection that is their right, if they are happy witha PIR then that is also their right.

It is illegal to inspect & test someone elses work in this situation.

 

[Andy™]

most i would do is a PIR or a 3 part EIC only signing I&T

also, if the PIR is for the purpose of part p, who else would give an unsatisfactory if any code 4's are found? after all, new install should have nothing that can be coded. the fact it does means it wasnt done properly, and shouldnt be given a part p cert until rectified

 

[Andy™]

It is illegal to inspect & test someone elses work in this situation.

got to disagree there. there are many companies who get outside I&T contractors in to I&T

 

[batty]

My only thoughts on this are if I was not paid by a builder I would be reluctant to give a certificate out but that probably because when I have lost money its due to builders. If he has not been paid by the builder I would think it very differcult to get him to give you a certificate. Was this builder not recommended.

 

[PC Electrics]

It is illegal to inspect & test someone elses work in this situation.

Sorry, gonna have to take issue with that.

How can you ever issue a PIR if you cannot I&T someone elses work?

What I think you meant was you cannot issue an EIC in this situation.

I think the OPs most expediant course of action here is to ask LABC if they would be prepared to issue a completion certificate based on a rigorous PIR. Assuming they will, engage someone locally to carry out a rigorous I&T and issue a PIR.

Legal channels will get bogged down in contractual law IMO.

 

[Sidewinder]

PC,

The key bit is "in this situation"

 

[kme]

Id do it for the right price. Im sure an electrician could make a killing with a desperate customer and nobody else phoning.

I have heard of someone who lives in the midlands, and can be `phoned for an EIC. He doesn`t leave home, takes details of CU etc. over the phone, and posts out an EIC ( I don`t know about part-P; it wasn`t mentioned).

If thats the route you want to take, matey, fair enough. I wouldn`t, but that isn`t to condemn others - it is deffo illegal, and could bite him badly one day, but that is his choice.

 

[Evans Electric]

And before anyone asks......... its not me!!

 

[Apache]

From the NICEIC site:

With effect from 1 January 2005, NICEIC Domestic Installers (including Approved Contractors registered as Domestic Installers) undertaking electrical installation work in dwellings that is required by Part P of the Building Regulations to be notified to the local authority building control office must, by law, arrange for a Building Regulations Compliance Certificate* to be issued to the customer within 30 days of completion of the work.

For all work that is subject to notification, Domestic Installers must provide certain details to the NICEIC as soon as possible after completion of the work, and in any event within 25 days.

Failure to arrange for the issue of a Building Regulations Compliance Certificate for any electrical installation work notifiable under Part P but not notified to Building Control in advance will be a criminal offence. Compliance with the legal requirements will be vigorously enforced by the NICEIC and Local Authorities.

https://brcs.niceic.com/about.asp

You can complain here:

http://niceic.com/householder/complaints

Much as they would like to withhold your certificate they are not legally entitled to.