Permit to work Live

[Rutts35]

Hi,

as some of you know I'm factory based. Currently I'm being asked to be 'responsible for site electrical safety'. Which at first I was quite pleased with then the realisation dawned on me what a big responsibility it is (even for someone as irresponsible as me O) )!! However, one thing that has come and I have approached management about before is live working. For us factory based sparks it is mainly working in live panels. I would imagine that most of us have live tested a circuit when fault finding knowing we could have found the fault with dead testing. 

Most of know that in the EAWR live testing is more or less prohibited unless you have a VERY good reason not to dead test. In my line of work this will be very few and far between. Examples are some ZS at DB testing or checking you actually have three phases entering a panel. 99% of what we do can be carried out dead.

My challenge is, that when live testing, we need a permit system that confirms that live testing is the only route, confirms GS38 lead set, etc.

I can design the form myself but being a little lazy at the moment had a look abut and couldn't see anything on the net ready to go. By ready to go i mean the A4 permit book with triple copy some of you will have seen and worked with.

Any one know of or use such a design or know where they can be purchased?

NB. before anyone like Canoe boy anyone else points out, I know I usually deign my own forms.  :B

 

[binky]

courgette permits, make sure safety training is up to date to work live and dead. 

 

[Evans Electric]

I thought  that because we are electricians  ,   if we need to test live then we test live  , I've done maintenance & breakdowns  and never thought about  filling forms in  TBH.

Taking care in leaving panel doors open , unattended  etc is a different  matter .  

Lets face it  one of the first things one often does is to test  that a supply exists  ....are all the phases there etc            how do you do that dead?   Lets face it ..machine doesn't work .... time to open panel and start prodding tester probes in and all the rest of it .  

Rutts I agree with you , it is a big responsibility  and YOU need to cover your  backside  with training , making stuff available  like MCB lock offs ,  warning signs  (Electrician working on the line ) etc   ,  multiple padlock callipers for  crane isolators etc.   Cover your ass from every direction and you should be getting a rise to reflect what you are taking on .      

Remember ...some of us are willing stick our heads above the parapets  while others keep their heads down  , just keep taking the money . 

When I was supervising I had to take on the new ( Back then)  H&S  responsibilities  and it wasn't easy .   One of the guys used uninsulated tools , they were his tools and he refused to spend money .      We had four vans , it included lights , brakes , tyres etc on them  .      Also had a subby  who  had to have a few beers every lunch break ..no sense out him in the afternoons  and a danger to others .      

 

[Rutts35]

Thanks for the replies. The permit is a must I'm afraid. It's not just sparks testing but multuskilled guys. A lot of this will be arsehole covering for me and the company. However we also have a duty of care to the lads. If there's no procedure in place people will test live even when the same result can be achieved by dead testing. As I said in the OP the need to test live is few and far between but some will do it for convenience if not challenged. As machines are fed from tap offs on buzz bars you'd know if the supply was down as other processes would be down. If an accident happens the HSE will be asking why they were testing live and what procedures do we have in place. Training and tools will covered in an electrical standard I have to draft. 

My head is never below the parapet  I've never learnt to keep my mouth shut.

The pay rise is a nice thought but, to be fair, the company do look after me .

courgette permits, make sure safety training is up to date to work live and dead. 

At the risk of looking stupid 'courgette permit'.  :Blushing

 

[Sidewinder]

Just remember that any machine panel since 1994, must be IP2x to have been legal for sale.

Thus there are no connections to accidentally touch.

Also anything less than 50V is not covered by the LVD, it is captured by the MD.

Also, it’s not classified as lethal.

Your panels must not have a fault current at the input greater than they can cope with, & this must be stated in the machine documents.

If it isn't or the fault current is greater than allowed, then that’s a breach of law also.

The panels must be designed to eliminate any chances of arc flash, else that’s a breach of law.

Therefore if your equipment is compliant, thus legal for use, then a lot of your hazards will be eliminated.

If they aren’t then you must address those, before implementing procedures & ppe, it’s the hierarchy of control.

 

[binky]

the forum has an auto rude word substitution function. courgette Fennel bollcks areshole etc etc

however misspelling defeats it.... :^O

 

[Rutts35]

Haha.

 

[Rutts35]

Just remember that any machine panel since 1994, must be IP2x to have been legal for sale.

Thus there are no connections to accidentally touch.

Also anything less than 50V is not covered by the LVD, it is captured by the MD.

Also, it’s not classified as lethal.

Your panels must not have a fault current at the input greater than they can cope with, & this must be stated in the machine documents.

If it isn't or the fault current is greater than allowed, then that’s a breach of law also.

The panels must be designed to eliminate any chances of arc flash, else that’s a breach of law.

Therefore if your equipment is compliant, thus legal for use, then a lot of your hazards will be eliminated.

If they aren’t then you must address those, before implementing procedures & ppe, it’s the hierarchy of control.

99.9% of our panels are up to scratch. We've had previous puwer reports carried our on any older panels and pulz reports. A large majority of our panels are brand new or installed after 2006. The new stuff has had assessments carried out by pilz before and after install so I believe we are civered We have copies of the ldv and md. 

With this in mind it's why we are going down the permit route so day to day maintenance is carried out safely.