Placement Of Fused Spurs For Kitchen Appliances

[HammerMan]

Evening Chaps,

Can you locate a switchable fused spur for a kitchen appliance under your wall cabinets behind the pelmet so its out of day-to-day sight?

Or can you locate them on the wall above your kitchen wall cabinets?

Both locations easily accessiable but out of day-to-day sight so more aestheticallypleasing on the eye....just wondered what your thoughts are on this? obviously adhearing to safe zones etc

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Yes

 

[Evans Electric]

The Regs ask for a "Local isolator "  so its your interpretation .  Personally I put them "Local" . 

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

If its ok to put them in the back of a base cabinet its ok by the pelmet. Also they may even not be needed for the regs

 

[HammerMan]

"Local" it is then

Whats the general thought to them being located above the wall cabinets on the wall or on-top of the wall cabinets?

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Well thats really pushing the 'local' who would even think of looking there.

If the appliances are not built in, ie secured to the units then local isolation is a socket on the wall behind them. That means a spurvis not needed although still a good idea

 

[HammerMan]

Well thats really pushing the 'local' who would even think of looking there.

If the appliances are not built in, ie secured to the units then local isolation is a socket on the wall behind them. That means a spurvis not needed although still a good idea

I know what you mean.... thats why I was little unsure... we have one up there already! and thinking back my previous house had two above the wall cabinets aswell, but they were for an extractor fan and and outside light which I guess are high leveal appliances rather than the likes of your washer... hmmm

 

[OnOff]

Why not just plan your kitchen and put an accessible bank of labelled grid switches in one place for multiple appliances?

I know what you mean.... thats why I was little unsure... we have one up there already! and thinking back my previous house had two above the wall cabinets aswell, but they were for an extractor fan and and outside light which I guess are high leveal appliances rather than the likes of your washer... hmmm

20A DP engraved switch above the worktop and un-switched 1G socket below for the appliance? That's quite "normal".

 

[HammerMan]

Why not just plan your kitchen and put an accessible bank of labelled grid switches in one place for multiple appliances?

20A DP engraved switch above the worktop and un-switched 1G socket below for the appliance? That's quite "normal".

Yer we have that for few appliances, I was just thinking if it was ok to get the switch thats currently above the worktop moved to above the wall cabinets, so not on day-to-day show...?

I had thought about the bank of grid switches in one place aswell, not sure I have an adequate spot for them though

 

[batty]

I have done kitchens with 7 or 8 appliances with these a grid switch is ideal if there is somewhere to put it.

 

[OnOff]

Yer we have that for few appliances, I was just thinking if it was ok to get the switch thats currently above the worktop moved to above the wall cabinets, so not on day-to-day show...?

I had thought about the bank of grid switches in one place aswell, not sure I have an adequate spot for them though

Is it your missus that want's this?  :lol:  First thought that springs to mind is why?

Not having a dig but some things to consider: So you move them above the wall cabinets, you / the washing machine repair guy goes to isolate and falls off the chair "suitable means of access"! Or.....stick the isolator in/on the back of a cupboard behind umpteen tins of beans and packets where you / A N Other might NOT see it. The regs make reference to the position of isolators being either "externally visible or clearly and reliably indicated". Above the cupboard, out of sight, sort of defeats the object IMO. What about a hob / oven switch, do you apply the same logic, hide the means of isolation then be fumbling in a smoke filled room next to a burning pot?

OR......stick 'em where you want but have some big, self adhesive labels made up to go on the cupboard fronts! 

 

[Steve3948]

We have many clients who only want sockets visible and everything else hidden in cupboards or out of sight.

Due to this, having told them I would put it as a limitation on the certificate, the client asked for proof and not from me so  I then contacted the NIC to check how many regulations putting them out of sight or hidden would be be classed as non compliant.

They came back with a minimum of 14, I may still  have the list so will try and locate on PC.

They concluded that it was better to keep them local and in sight or labelled if not very local and if out of sight then note it on certificate at client request non-compliance.

 

[HammerMan]

Thanks for your thoughts, it's interesting hearing teh different views, all valid in their own right aswell.  I asked the missus if she knew what teh fused spurs were... she had no idea they switch off the fridage and washer etc :slap

Come to the conclusion that above wall cabinets isn't great,and thinking more about it, I might get the fused spurs located as a bank of switches mounted inside the extract fan cupboard on a plinth at the front of the cupboard.... all thats in there is the internals of the extractor fan so I should be able to fit a bank of fused spurs mounted on a wooden plinth and lable all the switches accordingly....I do get the point though that strictly speaking the front of the cupboard door should also be labled to show there in their....

 

[Doc Hudson]

Regulation 132 lists numerous design considerations, one of them is accessibility for installation, operation, testing, fault finding maintenance and repair. If you have to be a contortionist or balance on the top of a ladder to open up an accessory then it is probably not very accessible. To often accessories, (and sometimes fuse boxes), are found to have been boxed in by kitchen fitters, or loft conversions, or fitted wardrobes etc so you can no longer open them up! A few simple checks are to consider; If the property is sold and new owners come in, are accessories logically placed for their function? If an appliance went faulty with some smoke coming out of it, is it easy to isolate in an emergency? If some maintenance or alteration work is being done by another trades person will he/she waste a lot of time trying to find that 'hidden' switch, fuse or socket before they can start the work? As has been said a suitably located and labeled bank of grid switches/fuses done correctly can look neat and tidy. far better than 3 or more individual spurs along the wall for cabinet lights, waste disposal, built in dishwasher, microwave, fridge  etc.

Doc H.

 

[OnOff]

Another thing(s) to consider.....leaving aside for the moment the electric hob which may be on it's own circuit then I assume you will be wanting to provide power to a number of the common under counter appliances; dishwasher, washing machine, maybe spin/tumble dryer, fridge etc. A lot will come with their own moulded plug. 

So, say you feed/isolate them each via a fused spur either directly above the appliance or on a semi-remote grid, and have an unswitched single gang socket for each under the counter. You now have two fuses in line, quite likely both 13A. You can now get into the realms of discrimination between fuses. Then one day the fuse blows........which one is it? Is it the easily accessible one on the grid/above or the one behind the cupboard behind the cat food? 

You could feed a single unswitched socket via a marked 20A DP switch grid or otherwise - maybe with a neon. Then you've only ONE fuse to worry about. (my preferred method tbh).

Or.......come off an FCU above and feed a flex outlet below:

http://www.ukelectricalsupplies.com/MK-20amp-White-PVC-Flex-Outlet-Plate.htm

Now, one fuse, no plug to worry about, BUT wait! By lopping the plug off have you invalidated the manufacturers warranty! And will the service agent throw it back at you when you call him out. Also can make moving the appliance a bitch.

:lol:

 

[Evans Electric]

I think you're pushing "local" to the limit by hiding them on top of wall units TBH,   the hob extract I'd think was OK up there but they're not really "local"  or accessible.

 

[OnOff]

Rough sketch always helps:

 

[batty]

Trouble is at the end of the day the customer is paying the bill. I have done one recently where all isolators are in cupboards. I would not have them like that but as said they are paying the bill. If I don't do it somebody else will. I will be putting on the certificate this is what customer wanted though. I will not be accused of doing this through my choice.