Power For Shed and Greenhouse
- Thread starter Christmas_Jones
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Help Support Talk Electrician Forum:
In fairness John, you can be on an electricians forum and expect to discuss matters with fellow tradesmen, not be a public service giving out advice or step by step instructions to DIYers.
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Well, perhaps yes.. but there is no need to be rude to them that come here asking...
john..
john..
Christmas_Jones
New member
I understand that electricity is dangerous and can be life threatening. But if you are so opposed to help anyone then why participate in the forum in the first place or in that question why have an electrical forum.
I came here because you say you are friendly forum to ask a question. I got the response that I expected. If you can establish that I am a blatantly incompetent DIYer from the 273 word question that I wrote in the first place, then you guys are very impressive.
As I said I will be asking a professional to check and connect the system up as this in my eye this is the dangerous part. All I just wanted to do was to help and carry out some of the back breaking work. Surprisingly within your responses and insults you have answered the questions that I wanted answering.
For all you that are worried about my health I will be speaking a profession qualified electrician to take their advice before I start or carry out any work
One last point if this forum is a trade only forum then maybe it should be titles as so and the board restricted to trade only people, not titles “Do-It-Yourself (DIY) Electrical Forum (Electrics)”
I came here because you say you are friendly forum to ask a question. I got the response that I expected. If you can establish that I am a blatantly incompetent DIYer from the 273 word question that I wrote in the first place, then you guys are very impressive.
As I said I will be asking a professional to check and connect the system up as this in my eye this is the dangerous part. All I just wanted to do was to help and carry out some of the back breaking work. Surprisingly within your responses and insults you have answered the questions that I wanted answering.
For all you that are worried about my health I will be speaking a profession qualified electrician to take their advice before I start or carry out any work
One last point if this forum is a trade only forum then maybe it should be titles as so and the board restricted to trade only people, not titles “Do-It-Yourself (DIY) Electrical Forum (Electrics)”
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You know, if we look at what has been said there is actually good, sound advice.
In summary:
Looks like on the information given 10mm T&E is probably not the best choice of cable.
Looks like on the information given a smaller diameter but SWA cable would be a better choice.
If you are in a hurry to get started before you employ the services of a spark then put in a cable duct with a draw cord in under patio slabs etc. so that the spark can pull in the appropriate cable.
Seek the services of a spark, agree cable, and other job specs and each others scope of work.
If it was me I would be happy with you digging trench (fitting duct if required) laying cable, tape marking sand etc. and back filling and just leaving me two nice bit loops of SWA at either end.
Be happy, and enjoy weekend
In summary:
Looks like on the information given 10mm T&E is probably not the best choice of cable.
Looks like on the information given a smaller diameter but SWA cable would be a better choice.
If you are in a hurry to get started before you employ the services of a spark then put in a cable duct with a draw cord in under patio slabs etc. so that the spark can pull in the appropriate cable.
Seek the services of a spark, agree cable, and other job specs and each others scope of work.
If it was me I would be happy with you digging trench (fitting duct if required) laying cable, tape marking sand etc. and back filling and just leaving me two nice bit loops of SWA at either end.
Be happy, and enjoy weekend
Now let me think, oh could it be that I am a qualified electrician with many years experience who comes on an electricians forum to discuss and debate things trade related with similarly qualified people
As far as I'm aware B&Q don't offer how to guides on how to wire a shed probably for good reasons so why should an electrical forum and / or it's members leave themselves open to litigation
Doc Hudson
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Just for the record and to remind a few members who have posted in this thread of a few basic facts relating to this forum and how it runs.
1/ DIY electrical work is legally permitted in the UK, you cannot be directly prosecuted for doing some DIY electrical work in your home, (or garden).
2/ Some electrical work (rules differ for England/Scotland/Wales/Ireland), requires building regulations compliance notification. You 'theoretically' could be prosecuted for non compliance with building regulations.
3/ This forum is not a 'Trade Only' forum, it has had a DIY Q&A section for a long time, I would guess at least 9+years.
4/ Excluding a handful of members who joined right at the beginning, every other member will have joined, (and accepted the terms and conditions of), a forum that includes a DIY Q&A section.
5/ There are numerous other subs forums suitable for Trade-to-Trade related questions and advice. So you could ignore all DIY Q&A's but still keep up to date with Trade news and discussions.
6/ If you are worried about litigation due to the content of another post, please use the report function so that the forum owners can assess any potential risk(s).
7/ If you are worried about personal litigation due to the content of information you are considering posting, then don't post it.
8/ If you do not like giving any form of constructive advice to DIY, or unskilled, persons then don't post anything. Close down the topic and go and browse other threads.
9/ Any qualified, competent person with years of experience under their belt, should also posses the ability to talk in a non patronising or offensive way to unskilled third parties with limited knowledge of what they are doing, or what potentially needs doing on a future project. (This is a skill set needed in most areas of work where you deal with members of the public or any third party not in your trade).
10/ Just because we are communicating via screen with texts or download images/videos, there is no need to get abusive or offensive if someone has a different viewpoint to yours.
So if any member really struggles or dislikes these basic forum principals, then maybe it would be best to find alternate forum, (there are others out there), that are more in line with their personally preferences. Please can we all put our adult discussion hats on and keep things civil and constructive, thank you.
Doc H.
1/ DIY electrical work is legally permitted in the UK, you cannot be directly prosecuted for doing some DIY electrical work in your home, (or garden).
2/ Some electrical work (rules differ for England/Scotland/Wales/Ireland), requires building regulations compliance notification. You 'theoretically' could be prosecuted for non compliance with building regulations.
3/ This forum is not a 'Trade Only' forum, it has had a DIY Q&A section for a long time, I would guess at least 9+years.
4/ Excluding a handful of members who joined right at the beginning, every other member will have joined, (and accepted the terms and conditions of), a forum that includes a DIY Q&A section.
5/ There are numerous other subs forums suitable for Trade-to-Trade related questions and advice. So you could ignore all DIY Q&A's but still keep up to date with Trade news and discussions.
6/ If you are worried about litigation due to the content of another post, please use the report function so that the forum owners can assess any potential risk(s).
7/ If you are worried about personal litigation due to the content of information you are considering posting, then don't post it.
8/ If you do not like giving any form of constructive advice to DIY, or unskilled, persons then don't post anything. Close down the topic and go and browse other threads.
9/ Any qualified, competent person with years of experience under their belt, should also posses the ability to talk in a non patronising or offensive way to unskilled third parties with limited knowledge of what they are doing, or what potentially needs doing on a future project. (This is a skill set needed in most areas of work where you deal with members of the public or any third party not in your trade).
10/ Just because we are communicating via screen with texts or download images/videos, there is no need to get abusive or offensive if someone has a different viewpoint to yours.
So if any member really struggles or dislikes these basic forum principals, then maybe it would be best to find alternate forum, (there are others out there), that are more in line with their personally preferences. Please can we all put our adult discussion hats on and keep things civil and constructive, thank you.
Doc H.
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Well said that man....
john..
john..
A very good idea, but who is going to write it?
This reminds me of a thread on an international engineering website “What grade of plastic pipe do I need to pump nitroglycerin through?”
No-one reads guides/FAQ's, and/or everyone assumes they are the first one to ask this question so it doesn't apply to them anyway. The sort of people that would read the FAQ would be the sort of person that wouldn't be here in the first place.
Doc Hudson
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And from some of the posts we have had over the years, from both newcomers and long term members, quite a few never try to use the search facility either.
Doc H.
phil d
Well-known member
http://www.screwfix.com/p/prysmian-lv-armoured-6943x-3-core-cable-4mm-x-25m-black/67843
http://www.screwfix.com/p/mk-1-gang-32a-dp-switch-with-neon-metal-clad/31874
http://www.screwfix.com/p/bg-3-way-metal-garage-unit-2-mcbs/1926g#_=p
http://www.screwfix.com/p/tower-external-gland-kit-20-ip66-pack-of-2/56505#product_additional_details_container
BEFORE CARRYING OUT ANY WORK MAKE SURE YOU TURN OFF THE POWER, ELECTRICITY CAN AND DOES KILL!!!!!
The above list is for parts needed to supply power to a shed no more than 20 mtrs from the house. from a spare rcd protected way in the consumer unit, rated at 20 amps take a length of 4mm twin and earth into the 32a dp switch, making sure to use a grommet where cable leaves consumer unit and where cable enters switch, sleeve earth with green and yellow sleeving.
Next, having buried the armoured cable a minimum of 600 mm deep, with 100 mm of soft sand above and below cable, and the appropriate warning tape 300 mm above cable, bring both ends into the buildings, at shed end, secure a piece of marine ply, to the wall and attach the consumer unit to this. gland the armoured cable correctly and connect to the consumer unit, the earthing tag should be fitted to the gland before inserting into the knock out on the unit, drill a 6mm hole through unit and secure tag with a nut and bolt, on inside of unit attach a short length of 6mm green and yellow cable to bolt using a crimp lug and attach other end to earth bar in unit, connect armoured cores to incoming live terminals. I recommend using brown as live, grey (sleeved blue) as neutral and black (sleeved with green and yellow) as earth
Make sure all connections are secure and tightened down correctly.
Bring other end of armoured cable into the house and after glanding it off connect to load side of switch, remember also to attach short lead from earth tag to earth terminal. Secure cable where appropriate with cable cleats at no further than 400 mm spacings.
You now have power into the building and can connect sockets or lights to the unit in the garage/shed.
After carrying out the work, make sure you test for correct insulation resistance, polarity, earth loop impedance and correct trip times on the RCD, Also note this work is notifiable under part P of the building regulations in some parts of the united kingdom.
The maximum measured earth loop value for a 20A mcb type B to BS 60898 or BS 3871 as laid down in the current edition of the IEE wiring regulations is 1.74 ohms.
The above is based on using a 3 core 4mm pvc insulated SWA cable, clipped direct or buried underground, on the specified cable, based on the 20 mtr run the maximum load would be 6Kw, or 26.09 amps with a volt drop of 5 volts, which is 2.2%.
Whilst some will say that 2 rcd's in series is pointless, modern homes have a fully rcd protected consumer unit and I do not wish to encourage people to mess with it, while it cannot be guaranteed which rcd will trip first at least one will, thereby giving protection.
All described above are my personal views and are not intended as a definitive guide to electrical work, I take no responsibility for death or injury that may occur from carrying out the above works, my advice would always be to use a qualified electrician. however hopefully following the above method will prevent a lot of the poor installs we see on a regular basis.
While the above is suitable for earthing systems using TNS or TNCS (PME) I would not advise on a TT system. I am aware that many people have an objection to "exporting" earthing. however I believe that you cannot obtain a better earth with a rod than you can using the supplied earth.
As stated earlier I do not advocate people doing electrical work without the correct training, but if you are going to do it then the above method if followed should result in a safe installation.
http://www.screwfix.com/p/mk-1-gang-32a-dp-switch-with-neon-metal-clad/31874
http://www.screwfix.com/p/bg-3-way-metal-garage-unit-2-mcbs/1926g#_=p
http://www.screwfix.com/p/tower-external-gland-kit-20-ip66-pack-of-2/56505#product_additional_details_container
BEFORE CARRYING OUT ANY WORK MAKE SURE YOU TURN OFF THE POWER, ELECTRICITY CAN AND DOES KILL!!!!!
The above list is for parts needed to supply power to a shed no more than 20 mtrs from the house. from a spare rcd protected way in the consumer unit, rated at 20 amps take a length of 4mm twin and earth into the 32a dp switch, making sure to use a grommet where cable leaves consumer unit and where cable enters switch, sleeve earth with green and yellow sleeving.
Next, having buried the armoured cable a minimum of 600 mm deep, with 100 mm of soft sand above and below cable, and the appropriate warning tape 300 mm above cable, bring both ends into the buildings, at shed end, secure a piece of marine ply, to the wall and attach the consumer unit to this. gland the armoured cable correctly and connect to the consumer unit, the earthing tag should be fitted to the gland before inserting into the knock out on the unit, drill a 6mm hole through unit and secure tag with a nut and bolt, on inside of unit attach a short length of 6mm green and yellow cable to bolt using a crimp lug and attach other end to earth bar in unit, connect armoured cores to incoming live terminals. I recommend using brown as live, grey (sleeved blue) as neutral and black (sleeved with green and yellow) as earth
Make sure all connections are secure and tightened down correctly.
Bring other end of armoured cable into the house and after glanding it off connect to load side of switch, remember also to attach short lead from earth tag to earth terminal. Secure cable where appropriate with cable cleats at no further than 400 mm spacings.
You now have power into the building and can connect sockets or lights to the unit in the garage/shed.
After carrying out the work, make sure you test for correct insulation resistance, polarity, earth loop impedance and correct trip times on the RCD, Also note this work is notifiable under part P of the building regulations in some parts of the united kingdom.
The maximum measured earth loop value for a 20A mcb type B to BS 60898 or BS 3871 as laid down in the current edition of the IEE wiring regulations is 1.74 ohms.
The above is based on using a 3 core 4mm pvc insulated SWA cable, clipped direct or buried underground, on the specified cable, based on the 20 mtr run the maximum load would be 6Kw, or 26.09 amps with a volt drop of 5 volts, which is 2.2%.
Whilst some will say that 2 rcd's in series is pointless, modern homes have a fully rcd protected consumer unit and I do not wish to encourage people to mess with it, while it cannot be guaranteed which rcd will trip first at least one will, thereby giving protection.
All described above are my personal views and are not intended as a definitive guide to electrical work, I take no responsibility for death or injury that may occur from carrying out the above works, my advice would always be to use a qualified electrician. however hopefully following the above method will prevent a lot of the poor installs we see on a regular basis.
While the above is suitable for earthing systems using TNS or TNCS (PME) I would not advise on a TT system. I am aware that many people have an objection to "exporting" earthing. however I believe that you cannot obtain a better earth with a rod than you can using the supplied earth.
As stated earlier I do not advocate people doing electrical work without the correct training, but if you are going to do it then the above method if followed should result in a safe installation.
How a forum reply should be......
john...
john...
phil d
Well-known member
It may not make me popular but what the hell, if they're gonna do it anyway may as well point them in the right direction.
Christmas_Jones
New member
Evening
I would like to thank everyone that made the effort to post positive and constructive comments especially Phil who has gone beyond helpful. I do really appreciate it
Thanks
I would like to thank everyone that made the effort to post positive and constructive comments especially Phil who has gone beyond helpful. I do really appreciate it
Thanks
Awww. Poor Steps... I got no beer, but i gave you a scoob to make you feel better!!!!
john...
john...
But you wouldn't get on Steps......he doesn't recommend TT'ing :slap
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