Qualifications Or Not!

[frazer171]

Hi I'm new to this group and I am a qs at a electrical company. I have a dilemma as the company I work for want none electrically qualified people to do electrical installs and nic minor elec work sheets and full niceic sheet on new installs etc. I am not happy with this as I would be signing of work which I have not seen by none qualified persons who are deemed competent by our company procedures is this right!!!

Many thanks

 

[sprocketflup]

What do you think?

 

[frazer171]

Was told by nic inspector that if they are trained and deemed competent this would be OK but can't believe he is correct .

 

[Andy™]

no wonder so many bodge jobs are done... NIC just turning a blind eye to it, just as long as one person there is qualified & ready to take the blame...

 

[ProDave]

no wonder so many bodge jobs are done... NIC just turning a blind eye to it, just as long as one person there is qualified & ready to take the blame...

But they don't even do that. Take the blame I mean.

 

[sprocketflup]

Like Andy says, the buck stops with you. You need to put your foot down about it Id say

 

[pewter]

Hi I'm new to this group and I am a qs at a electrical company. I have a dilemma as the company I work for want none electrically qualified people to do electrical installs and nic minor elec work sheets and full niceic sheet on new installs etc. I am not happy with this as I would be signing of work which I have not seen by none qualified persons who are deemed competent by our company procedures is this right!!!

Many thanks

I am a little confused, are they using incorrect forms?

If so, should you be signing off an incorrect form? i wouldnt.

Are the non qualified people doing the testing and filling in the certificates?   if so are they filled in correctly? if not i would not sign it.

Or

Are you doing the testing and inspection?   if so is the work 100% ok? if it is, there might not be a problem. If during your inspection and testing you find any faults do you still sign it off?

 

[apprentice87]

What testing or appraisal have your company done to determine if these people are "competent" or not??? I am far from stupid, and i have a fair ability [but no quals] I know what is right and what is wrong, but i would not describe myself as "competent" not to go out doing installs for members of the public..... You know, passing myself off as an electrician and stuff.

john...

 

[frazer171]

Thanks for the replies the nic sheets are correct forms and would be checked by me and ould not sign them unless I new they looked OK but I will not be doing the tests myself and these people have been deemed competent by the company a nic sheet may look OK but I am not happy as I have not seen the finished work. I have started the ball rolling in stepping down as qs but told that was my position in the company so am potential being warned I may not have another role.

 

[ProDave]

You can't sign as the tester if you have not even seen, let alone tested the install surely? Well I wouldn't.

If your company think they are competent, get them to sign their own forms?

 

[Sharpend]

Just ask MS Clancy to sign them off.

 

[frazer171]

Pmsl nice one

 

[Murdoch]

Was told by nic inspector that if they are trained and deemed competent this would be OK but can't believe he is correct .

no wonder there are so many crxp installs these days.

The QS system is flawed.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hi I'm new to this group and I am a qs at a electrical company. I have a dilemma as the company I work for want none electrically qualified people to do electrical installs and nic minor elec work sheets and full niceic sheet on new installs etc. I am not happy with this as I would be signing of work which I have not seen by none qualified persons who are deemed competent by our company procedures is this right!!!

Many thanks

I got a feeling a key point is being missed here....

Which box are you actually signing...

(or being asked to sign) ?

i.e.

The NICEIC forms have boxes for the person doing Design / Construction / Inspection & Testing to sign...

AND..

a separate box for the QS to sign with a declaration that "the results of the inspection & testing have been reviewed" by QS..

The QS is NOT signing to say that they have done the work or tested it...

Just checked over all the results to verify they look appropriate to the type of installtion...

etc.. etc..

Which comes then to the question...

If a person is totally incompetent then they will almost certainly NOT be able to fill a certificate out correctly and you will have some hard copy black & white proof of their incompetence.....

But at the moment... 

you are just speculating as to their incompetence without any evidence...

Are you saying that every other employee at you company has NO electrical qualifications or training at all..?

And you are the only one..

Or that some have partial training and a few quals that they are still working on ???

It is that dilemma of what is competence...

Paper qualifications alone OR practical experience alone does not make anyone competent...

It's a balance of the two..

But at some point someone has to do a bit more outside of their normal abilities in order to become competent in a new skill set....

However back to your position and the points you need to consider..

1) If you don't want to do it..

Sounds to me as though you may be out of a job

2) Without evidence what gives you the right to question another employee's ability in a company where you are just another employee!

3a) Either go along with it then raise issues when you do have evidence to back up you case..

3b) Or get out and find another job because like it or not..

Its not your company and I would hazard a guess they are going to go down this path whether you like it or not!

You can only kick up a stink when you have evidence and you job is secure!

opcorn

 

[Steve3948]

Was this not what the new yellow changed, forget time served, qualified etc, its about competent.

Also people keep blaming the NIC, they do not make the rules, all scams are the same, its down to the businesses to follow the requirements, they are not in charge of your business you are, or if an employee your company.

 

[Sharpend]

Sorry Steve have to disagree with you on this. The Nic system of a QS for many is fundamentally flawed, how can one QS oversee the quality and standard of so many effectively?

Also it is a means to allow the less trained/ competent a free range on the job. We all know that many firms utilise the less qualified on a larger scale than those actually qualified and competent and quite often this lower standard of work goes unnoticed. I've seen this on more than one Nic firm.

 

[Blue Duck]

I do a lot of council jobs, the rewire boys are all Non english speakers these days I tried asking one guy something... sorry no English......

Its just a way of getting jobs done on the cheap not the foreigners fault the councils want it done cheap.

All trunking rewires too!

 

[kerching]

There is a national contractor near to me

Hundreds of "sparks" work for them

I believe they only have one QS!....how does that work then?

 

[Blue Duck]

Badly

 

[Steve3948]

Sorry Steve have to disagree with you on this. The Nic system of a QS for many is fundamentally flawed, how can one QS oversee the quality and standard of so many effectively?

Also it is a means to allow the less trained/ competent a free range on the job. We all know that many firms utilise the less qualified on a larger scale than those actually qualified and competent and quite often this lower standard of work goes unnoticed. I've seen this on more than one Nic firm.

But it's not just companies that are registered with the NIC, its anyone.

Take a factory with say 5 Electricians, they will have a foreman or manager and they all take instruction from him, so in affect he is the QS and if anything goes wrong he takes responsibility.

There are contracting firms out there who are not members of the NIC but have the exact same system in place, Electricians and Foreman/Manager/QS.

The NIC get a bashing, but the others are all the same, QS is not a unique thing that the NIC invented, it's named different  that's all.

If you are a company with more than one operative and you are in charge or running the show, you are the QS, that's how I see it, nothing to do with NIC.