Question

[switch10]

Ok guys bit of a question that I have been wondering. A few fire alarm companies local to me I see regular pictures of there engineers etc installing emergency lighting ,fire alarm isolation switches for fire alarm panels, mains interlinked detectors etc and I wondered how they legally do this work when they are altering the wiring design and are in. I way electrically qualified, ok so they are competent for fire alarm works but have no electrical qualifications or background. Just curious as to how they do this legally issuing completion certificates , this works can be done in domestic, commercial and industrial properties .

 

[Essex1]

The magic word that is the Bain of our industry is 'competent'. 

 

[Andy™]

they may be qualified electricians who also do fire alarms & emergency lighting

either way, providing they are competent then there is nothing to stop them doing the work

 

[Sidewinder]

Yes, true, but, they are still bound by the same rules as electricians, in that they must comply with BS7671, or otherwise prove that their work is safe and compliant.

Had an alarm installer turn up on a pseudo medical job, chuck their alarm in, including power supply, no testing, then when questioned claim they didn't need to do any, and then told the patient that they would charge extra if they wanted testing as they would need to send an electrician to do it.

Patient is vulnerable so unsure, and we told here not to pay, so they get away with it, she is too vulnerable to complain, plus alarm bod isn't registered anywhere to complain to, bar trading standards, who won't give a toss anyway, because they are too busy.

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

You have to understand how alarm companies work to see why its done the way it is, I will try.

£ / not got a clue

But I have to stick up for the bod you spoke to.

He knows that if he opens any socket, connects 3 wires like "Dave" showed him, and it works then its ok.

That really is the limit of his knowledge because his boss will be on his case if he does not do what he is told.

The boss will turn round and say, yes, we can employ an electrician to do it for us, but it would cost too much, but if you want we can get an electrician to test it, but it will not be cheap, and your alarm is working ok isn't it.

 

[Sidewinder]

I just wish that I could get them prosecuted or the like, TBH, if they went out of business then I would be happy.

Cowboys like this need taking out, especially when they are preying on the vulnerable.

I would happily see them do time TBH.

If there was any way that I could sort this I would, and I may still get a chance to, so if I can I will, and with a clear conscience.

Hopefully the guy will not then get the chance to rip anyone else off.

Oh, and it WAS the company owner who I tackled, and he had less of a clue then his minion, I had to almost physically restrain my minion to stop him from beating the living daylights out of the two of them!

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

I see what you say, but don't look at it the same way.

You say he is "preying on the vulnerable / ripping people off" so you instantly don't like him.

He is looking at it that they are making money for an alarm they installed, and the person they install it for can now feel more secure because they have an alarm.

I don't see how is he is "preying on the vulnerable" he is just running his business

I also do not see how he is "ripping people off"  To "rip some one off" is to charge  too much for something.

I agree that he does not have a clue, but the likes of him work that way for everyone.
 

If folk knew more in the first place, that it needs to be tested properly, then it should not happen.

If it helps, from my experience Fire alarm "engineers" do not like electricians, burglar alarm "engineers" do not like electricians, electricians do not like fire alarm or burglar alarm "engineers" 

In short, it doesn't matter who you are, nobody like you.

 

[Sidewinder]

I won't defend him.

He is ripping off the vulnerable, and breaking the law.

He did his incompetent works and was unable and unwilling to test them at the property when there were other people working there, and the property will be the workplace of others, even though it is a private dwelling, thus he has broken the law, and should be punished, end of.

I hate people like this and if I had my way, I would put them all out of business.

End of.

 

[Richard-the-Ninth]

I wonder what others think?

Gentlemen. You have read my opinion, and sidewinders opinion. I am not wanting any arguments or similar,  I am just interested in your opinion.

I am also NOT asking who is right or who is wrong, just what do you think to these questions

1) Is the alarm person / company "ripping off" some one

2) Is he breaking the law?

Just an interesting debate please, no rude words or slagging anyone off.

 

[Sharpend]

If we are to be stringent then should he be installing an alarm? Is he suitably trained/qualified too, maybe, but should he be interfering with electrics without being suitably qualified to do so, bearing in mind he's charging for his services then no. 

So is he ripping someone off? Well I would say that he is receiving monies for work he is not suitably qualified to do therefore yes. 

HOWEVER: 

the way of this world is to do what you can to earn a crust regardless of whether it's right or wrong. 

Does it it make it right, NO, but then how many jobs have we all done that we've perhaps not had suitable training in? 

Personally I think that when it comes to electric and gas then it's a must to get a suitably trained person in to do the job as there's an element of risk to life involved. 

In jobs that there's no risk to life then at worst someone ain't happy with the finish, or it needs to be redone, but is it right to charge money then no, for the moment you charge for your services you are saying I'm qualified to do so. 

????

 

[steptoe]

He is breaking the law,

He is working on something he is unable to test, therefore he isn't competent to work on it, section 16 of statutory document EAWR 

 

[phil d]

Dont get me started on alarm companies - Chubb - Stands for throw it in from the garden gate......

Ah yes,but at least they get out of the van,not like the clowns doing "drive by" EICR'S lol.

Incidentally one idiot was bragging to me recently how he'd dropped a major one but managed to get out of it without the boss finding out.Apparently he'd done some work on a property and was to do a full test on completion,unfortunately he'd done something wrong and the meter hadn't stored the results for him to print out later."how did you sort it then"? I asked totally intreagued "oh that was easy,I had another set of results from a different place so I just altered the readings slightly and changed the address details"

unfortunately he wouldn't say who he worked for,shame really I'd have loved a chat with his boss.