RCBO advice

[J'adore electrics]

Good morning guys and girls.

After some advice regarding off brand rcbo in DB's.
I've got a NOARK DB (installed by overs) which has got an AC type rcbo spare and I've tried to source an A type but have had no luck.
Its a Chinese brand DB which dont use busbar connections and is all tri-rated cables looped in and out of the protection devices.
As i cannot source an A type would it be deemed non compliant to add another brand of rcbo event thou there will be no strain on busbar connections due to non aligning terminations?
this is my understanding of recommendation to keep correct brand mcb/rcbo to correct DB's

there's not really scope to change db either.

thank you in advance peeps.

 

[Fleeting]

No it must be the same brand. No sure I would trust something from China that says NO ARK.

 

[kerching]

This sounds like a quality product. Tri Rated cable instead of a busbar?, nice!
I would either fit an enclosure with an A type in it OR walk away!
More chance of walking

 

[steptoe]

This sounds like a quality product. Tri Rated cable instead of a busbar?, nice!
I would either fit an enclosure with an A type in it OR walk away!
More chance of walking

A lot of European 3 phase (and single) panels use tri-rated cable instead of a busbar,
I'm fairly certain some ABB panels are like this, among others.

 

[kerching]

A lot of European 3 phase (and single) panels use tri-rated cable instead of a busbar,
I'm fairly certain some ABB panels are like this, among others.

I defer to your superior knowledge and hands on experience of this stuff

Just sounds "Moody " to me

 

[steptoe]

I defer to your superior knowledge and hands on experience of this stuff

Just sounds "Moody " to me

Some if it is a bit weird tbh,
And ABB now have a panel where everyway is any phase, the OCPDs have pins which slit into the (shrouded) busbar, and the phase is set using a slider in the rear of the OCPD,
Sounds a good idea, until someone changes out an OCPD and doesn't set the correct phase,
Had a panel last year with L1 on 120 amps+ , L2 and L3 were reading <20amps on the panel.
You need to understand these things before you start plugging the OCPDs in.

 

[Mike.J]

@J'adore electrics looking at your avatar, is this in the UK or France.

 

[J'adore electrics]

@J'adore electrics looking at your avatar, is this in the UK or France.

Uk based mike with a French twist

 

[michael8554]

French twist:

 

[Mike.J]

In the UK the manufacturers have a large voice with the rule inventors and that voice says "follow the manufacturers instructions" this has been interpreted as you can only fit the original manufacturers protection devise's in the original manufacturers enclosure. This interpretation has not been made in France, hence the question in my last post.

 

[BorisJ]

That is guidance only, not a reg. It is also manufactures trying to protect their interests.

 

[Mike.J]

I have stated that point on this and other threads, but it does not seem to get through, any departure from the British Standard is allowed as long as it is deemed to not increase the risk or indeed lessen any risk, there is even a cop out in the IET 18th edition under 1.5 "Departure" but then electricians are not regulated.

What gives the IET the right to call their publication "18th IET Wiring Regulations BS7671 :2018" when clearly it has not passed through Parliament and been given royal assent. Discuss?

 

[Fleeting]

What gives the IET the right to call their publication "18th IET Wiring Regulations BS7671 :2018" when clearly it has not passed through Parliament and been given royal assent. Discuss?

Been there done that. They are Regulations drawn up by the IET previously the IEE and they regulate them they are their Regulations whether they are law is neither here nor there.

 

[Mike.J]

In which case they are not Regulations, but Guidance only as is any BS, the IET or the previous IEE are not a regulating authority for electricians and therefore can not dictate the standards or work required to be an electrician, if they had a membership of some kind, then they could dictate to their members the rules that are needed to comply with membership, but they do not have the force of law.

Regulations definition: the act of regulating : the state of being regulated. 2a : an authoritative rule dealing with details or procedure safety regulations. b : a rule or order issued by an executive authority or regulatory agency of a government and having the force of law.

 

[Fleeting]

In which case they are not Regulations, but Guidance only as is any BS, the IET or the previous IEE are not a regulating authority for electricians and therefore can not dictate the standards or work required to be an electrician, if they had a membership of some kind, then they could dictate to their members the rules that are needed to comply with membership, but they do not have the force of law.

Regulations definition: the act of regulating : the state of being regulated. 2a : an authoritative rule dealing with details or procedure safety regulations. b : a rule or order issued by an executive authority or regulatory agency of a government and having the force of law.

There you go you have answered your own question.
The state of being regulated, the IET.
Executive authority, the IET.
Who says the IET are a regulating authority for electricians, they certainly don't. They don't imply they have the force of the law, they regulate their own regulations.

 

[Mike.J]

Read point b again operative wording is "having the force of law" which they don't, they are just a made up organisation that electricians have come to accept as an executive authority which they are not, just someone who has interpreted BS7671 and put their own thoughts on paper as both you and I do.

 

[Fleeting]

Read point b again operative wording is "having the force of law" which they don't, they are just a made up organisation that electricians have come to accept as an executive authority which they are not, just someone who has interpreted BS7671 and put their own thoughts on paper as both you and I do.

The 'force of the law' being applicable to the last part of that sentence.

 

[Mike.J]

The force of law being applicable to all Regulations, and can only be a Regulation if a bill has been read/passed through Parliament, then the House of Lords, then to the monarchy for royal assent and hence onto the Secretary of State for issue into the Statute anything other than that is not a Regulation.

 

[Mike.J]

There you go you have answered your own question.
The state of being regulated, the IET.
Executive authority, the IET.
Who says the IET are a regulating authority for electricians, they certainly don't. They don't imply they have the force of the law, they regulate their own regulations.

Wrong the IET purport they are a regulating authority by publishing documents that say "IET Wiring Regulations"

 

[Fleeting]

Wrong the IET purport they are a regulating authority by publishing documents that say "IET Wiring Regulations"

Do you honestly believe a Chartered Institution is publishing a document which to your eyes is wrong. I suspect they have more knowledge on these matters than us.