RCD Fail - What code?

[sellers]

Code 2 as you need another fault to require the RCD proteciton, is my view.However, you may have associated Code 2 faults, which cumulatively could present a Code 1.

A faulty RCD cannot kill you unless somethign else goes wrong.

Direct contact with a live conductor can thus Code 1.

in the same respect bypassed fuses cannot kill you unless something else goes wrong, but I would still code a 1.

You are correct steps, 15th/14th/13th installs that weren't designed to use RCD's should be code 4. But if its got one it should work.

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Quick 'Q' for the OP...

Is this failing RCD in a Domestic job?

Or are we talking commercial?

Assuming domestic..... ray

Based on the guidance on page 11 of best practice guide 4..

Best practice guides : Electrical Safety Council

The ONLY RCD fails to operate guidance refers to in a TT situation 'MAIN RCD FAILS' and this is a code 1.

The only other CODE 1 RCD issue listed..

Is the absence of RCD for 'Non SELV sockets' in a bath or shower room!!!

All other RCD related issues are code 2.

and those are

Absence of "FAULT PROTECTION" by RCD e.g. TT

Absence of RCD protection for portable equipment outdoors...

I think you would need to confirm exactly which circuit types this failing RCD was connected to..

and that could have some bearing upon if you Code 1 or 2.

e.g. just on upstairs sockets.. bit less risky than downstairs + outdoor sockets...

I think bottom line is...

I would just tell the customer part of their installation has failed to work correctly..

it will be

 

[steptoe]

Well put spec loc, main RCD in TT = 100mA , as I said, code 1 if this fails, we know this is not the case for OP, He has a X5 test on it.

 

[a1]

Well put spec loc, main RCD in TT = 100mA , as I said, code 1 if this fails, we know this is not the case for OP, He has a X5 test on it.

:Salute

 

[ktguk]

Hi Guys, Just joined this forum to get some light on this subject as there is an ongoing argument within my company!

RCD fails to trip on both x1 and x5...Which code would you guys determine for this defect?

Cheers!

code 2 treat as if it wasnt there. check out electrical safety councils best practice guide (havent got the link google it)

 

[steptoe]

code 2 treat as if it wasnt there. check out electrical safety councils best practice guide (havent got the link google it)

:C

if it wasnt there it would be CODE 4 - none compliance with CURRENT regs.

its defective, without being of immediate danger, hence a code 2

 

[ktguk]

:C if it wasnt there it would be CODE 4 - none compliance with CURRENT regs.

its defective, without being of immediate danger, hence a code 2

code 2 - for anything that could be used outside. im thinking this is a 16th CU. all code 1s and 2s should be repaired anyway

 

[philbas]

I think code 2, however if you find another code 2 on the circuit I think it becomes a code 1, also if it's a TT system I think it;s a 1 or a 1.5

In a way it's a bit like an MOT on the car, you are not required to have a spare wheel, but if you do have on it must be legal

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

code 2 treat as if it wasnt there. check out electrical safety councils best practice guide (havent got the link google it)

Already linked back in post #22

 

[ktguk]

Already linked back in post #22

Oh yer..... apologies*

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Oh yer..... apologies*

Admin keeps you in after class on 1 hour detention if you don't read all the posts fully........

] Guinness

Then he goes off in a big sulk!

ROTFWLROTFWL

 

[kme]

I`m sorry......

Coding issues are, in my opinion, a subjective issue which the person responsible for the work must ascertain, dependant on individual circumstances.

From the info given; I`d probably look at a "2"; but that isn`t definative.....

KME

 

[WarrenG]

Personally I'd go with a code 1.

The design criteria for additional protection @30mA is faulty.

That for me presents an immediate danger on the energised circuits the RCD should be protecting.

We all know that these devices require a mechanical check on the test button every 3 months. There is a method in the madness.

 

[Sidewinder]

Warren,

Just to draw a little more info and debate, that is all.

You say a code 1, OK.

Now a code 1 demands that the inspector makes emergency repairs as there is an imminent danger to life or property.

This is explained in several industry documents and examples such as exposed live parts are used.

Can you please elaborate a little more on how you feel that a failed rcd is a code 1.

There would have to be another fault present or dangerous action undertaken for this to give imminent danger to life in the same way as an exposed conductive part?

Also what immediate emergency action would you undertake to make the installation more safe prior to leaving say?

 

[Manator]

The ERA report for the ESC carried out in 2007 makes for some very good reading. Half way down the report it mentions when RCD's have been found to be faulty some occupants of the properties refused to have them changed, even some of those who were not even paying for the change. Most of the faults can be cleared on-site, some will require some bench work to free them up, I would suggest people have a look at the findings in this report, it was a confidential report but I am sure it is now in the public domain.

 

[sellers]

I don't agree, a faulty rcd on a tt is a code 1, no main earth is a code 1, both require additional faults to become a danger to life.

 

[Riggy]

The ERA report for the ESC carried out in 2007 makes for some very good reading. Half way down the report it mentions when RCD's have been found to be faulty some occupants of the properties refused to have them changed, even some of those who were not even paying for the change. Most of the faults can be cleared on-site, some will require some bench work to free them up, I would suggest people have a look at the findings in this report, it was a confidential report but I am sure it is now in the public domain.

Got a link please? - I've replaced 11 RCDs in the last two days, if there's a way of repairing them I'm interested!

 

[Manator]

It is a code 2, however if the inspector feels in his best instincts it can be a code 1 depending on the state of the wiring. This is why all codes before finalized need to be risk assessed. Like I said in an earlier thread I did a code 2 because the danger was restricted to one person who had the key and he was fully aware, and took measures to restrict that risk, if it had been a home with children then I would have coded it 1.

You must always code to what you can comfortably live with at the time of inspection, the problem comes from giving unwarranted codes that could cost the client a substantial amount of money, which he could claim back from you under the terms of your contract to carry out any PIR.

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 20:43 ---------- Previous post was made at 20:38 ----------

Riggy I think you may need to google it, I have the file on disk, and I am still unsure if the confidential tag has been lifted.

As far as repairs go, there was two main problems.

A, dust or debris often from initial fitting

B, Moisture and temperature having a corroding effect on the mechanical parts

The first can often be cleared by compressed air ( those can dusters are ideal), the second is far more economical to change. Operating the test switch at regular intervals prevented most faults.

 

[Riggy]

the second is far more economical to change.

As most of mine are on Caravan Parks I'll carry on replacing them then! Thanks anyway.

 

[Sidewinder]

Manator,

This:

http://www.esc.org.uk/fileadmin/user_upload/documents/industry/rcd_research/Final_Report.pdf