RCD's & Commercial

[m4tty]

Hi,

I understand the requirements for RCD's in domestic properties but does this also apply to commercial premises too that are not under the instruction of skilled persons (or is that the get out)?

Thanks

Edit: And also offices full of computers??

 

[Lurch]

Hmm, I know what happens when this subject comes up.

If the installation is not under the control of skilled persons it needs an RCD, where the requirements in BS7671:2008 say it needs an RCD.

 

[ianmacd]

Last one did run a bit.

Agree with Lurchie there.

Not wanting to start another monster but I believe the contntious point was always sasifying our duty for "under the instruction of skilled persons".

BTW (or by the way incase patch reads this), you two should exchange avitars.

 

[batty]

If its a new installation you will have to RCD sockets but existing I would put code 4 on pir's. (offices)

Batty

 

[kme]

Last one did run a bit.Agree with Lurchie there.

Not wanting to start another monster but I believe the contntious point was always sasifying our duty for "under the instruction of skilled persons".

BTW (or by the way incase patch reads this), you two should exchange avitars.

Agree too. (Flippin` eck. Good to tell it`s Friday!)

Avatars, Ian? - Did you mean Signatures???ROTFWLROTFWLROTFWLROTFWL:coat

 

[sellers]

what denotes under control of skilled persons?

 

[Risteard]

If its a new installation you will have to RCD sockets but existing I would put code 4 on pir's. (offices)Batty

You can only do that if it fails to comply with the Regulations, which means that they're not under the control of skilled or instructed persons. I presume that's what the original poster was questioning?

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

Hi,I understand the requirements for RCD's in domestic properties but does this also apply to commercial premises too that are not under the instruction of skilled persons (or is that the get out)?

Thanks

Edit: And also offices full of computers??

The overriding issue in this situation is actually "The health and Safety at work act". herein referred to as "H&S@W" (I am not re-writing that every time... X( )

Namely in pretty well every business establishment in the country the management / owners of the business could be prosecuted under "H&S@W" for allowing Untrained or Unskilled or Unsupervised persons to undertake any type of alteration work.

So a person with minimal knowledge will not be drilling / cutting / removing / connecting up anything to any of the buildings services, gas pipes, electric cables, water pipes, oil lines, telecommunications etc.. etc...

And all staff at each workplace will have had to undergo a health and safety induction process of some sort relating to the type of work they are involved in.

So it is perfectly reasonable and safe to assume the workplace is under the guidance of skilled persons.

Whereas, of course None of the above apply in a domestic dwelling.

 

[Lurch]

Whereas, of course None of the above apply in a domestic dwelling.

It does in my domestic dwelling. No-one will touch anything here without me supervising or doing it.

Be very rare to say that a domestic dwelling is under the instruction of skilled persons though, the fact they have got you in in the first place generally means it isn;t.

 

[spinlondon]

Any socket for general use indoors by ordinary persons must be RCD protected, unless they are to be used under the supervision of skilled or instructed persons, or they are for a specific purpose and are identified as such.

Sockets intended for equipment that will be used outdoors must be RCD protected irrespective of whether they will be used by or under the supervision of skilled or instructed persons. This is covered by Regulation 411.3.3.

Any cable that is concealed in a safe zone of a wall at a depth less than 50mm must be RCD protected, unless the installation is under the supervision of a skilled or instructed person. This is covered by Regulations 522.6.6/7.

Any circuit of a special location must be RCD protected, irrespective of whether the installation is under the supervision of a skilled or instructed person. This is covered by Regulation 701.411.3.3.

A room containing a shower, that is solely for emergency use, is not considered a special location.This is covered by Regulation 701.1.

 

[steptoe]

It does in my domestic dwelling. No-one will touch anything here without me supervising or doing it.Be very rare to say that a domestic dwelling is under the instruction of skilled persons though, the fact they have got you in in the first place generally means it isn;t.

we have had this before about me rewiring my own house.

do you really have the final say(or only when the boss allows you?)

plus the fact of when you sell,

 

[batty]

we have had this before about me rewiring my own house.do you really have the final say(or only when the boss allows you?)

plus the fact of when you sell,

And why would you want to do it to a lesser standard than what you would do for other people.

 

[steptoe]

And why would you want to do it to a lesser standard than what you would do for other people.

well you wouldnt,

BUT, I have an issue with a certain piece of kit that simply leaks about 50mA to earth by design, so I have run a radial for it singularly, and can replace the MCB with an RCBO in future.

 

[m4tty]

well you wouldnt,BUT, I have an issue with a certain piece of kit that simply leaks about 50mA to earth by design, so I have run a radial for it singularly, and can replace the MCB with an RCBO in future.

Whats that ? if you dont mind?? ..... its not a cannabis factory is it ?? lol

 

[ianmacd]

well you wouldnt,BUT, I have an issue with a certain piece of kit that simply leaks about 50mA to earth by design, so I have run a radial for it singularly, and can replace the MCB with an RCBO in future.

That's allowed under 411.3.3 (B) without the need for suitably trained person etc....

 

[Risteard]

Regarding skilled/instructed persons and domestic installations, the On-Site Guide appears to suggest that no domestic installations can reasonably be classed as being under the control of skilled/instructed persons. As such, the exemptions in such circumstances would appear NEVER to apply to a domestic dwelling, regardless of whom lives within such a dwelling.

 

[ianmacd]

I have argued that position in other threads. Nice to see at least 2 others take that view.

 

[spinlondon]

Regarding skilled/instructed persons and domestic installations, the On-Site Guide appears to suggest that no domestic installations can reasonably be classed as being under the control of skilled/instructed persons. As such, the exemptions in such circumstances would appear NEVER to apply to a domestic dwelling, regardless of whom lives within such a dwelling.

Not strictly true.

Some dwellings, such as Prisons, Barracks even residential care homes could fall whithin the exception for cables concealed in walls.

Caretaker premises could fall under both the cables concealed in walls and the socket exceptions.

 

[Lurch]

I have argued that position in other threads.

What, domestic dwellings can never be solely under the control of instructed persons?

 

[ianmacd]

OMG not starting down this road again. Lets just agree to disagree on that point.