regs query

[kme]

Afternoon all.

Recently did a domestic PIR - discovered the alarm panel had been fed out the back of a double socket on the ring (2.5 T/E, BS3036 30A) in 1.5mm T+E for approx 4M, to a fused spur beside alarm panel.

When I pointed this out to customer, it came to light that the same company had been doing the yearly maintainance on it. Customer `phoned, and alarm company asked for a report. I sent one, with ref to 16th ed 433-02-04.

They`ve phoned back today, and apparently they checked with ECA, who said that it was ok under 15th (install date `89).

I haven`t been able to find my 15th, and they`re quoting 443-02-04???? ?:|

Am I correct, or am I going crackers?? NIC seem to think i`m right, helpline just quoted Iz>In>Ib.(433-02-01)

Thanks guys.

 

[extension15]

1.5mm is OK as the FCU will limit this to 13A max..

I've seen this practice a few times..

I couldn't justify giving this a 2...

(I tend to 'overlook' these things at times..: O)

:|

 

[kme]

agree with your point on spur protection, but what is protecting the 1.5 itself? ?:|

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

agree with your point on spur protection, but what is protecting the 1.5 itself? ?:|

I would tend to agree with you KME...

I have always understood it is at the point where the conductor C.S.A changes & thus the max current capacity changes, that additional fuse protection would be required...

Although the FCU would limit the current drawn by the load, if a fault occoured after the socket position and before the FCU then the 1.5 is not sufficiently protected by the 30amp 3036.

Also when doing your PIR you are noting areas of non-compliance with current regs, not the regs applicable when installed.

The question is is it just a code 4 or code 2?

If you adopt the stance of what regs were applicable when the circuit was installed, every installtion will always be considered satisfactory, because it was correct when it was installed??????

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

I agree with special.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

433-02-04 is an incorrect reg for this as it refers to the ring only, not any spurs.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Just had a look in the 17th and Appendix 15 shows only 2.5mm connected directly to a 30 or 32A ring.

 

[kme]

433-02-04 is an incorrect reg for this as it refers to the ring only, not any spurs.

Agreed slips, but other than 433-2-1, it was the best I could do at short notice ( :_| )

Anyway mate, it makes more sense than 443 does, unless that reg has radically changed 15th-16th?????? (don`t think so) ?:|

Mian issue here is that ECA are saying it complies, NIC are saying it doesn`t, and I`d like to have the general consensus of the best & most knowledgeable sparks around, which is why I posted this here,( here`s hoping you`re all susceptible to flattery)

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

discovered the alarm panel had been fed out the back of a double socket on the ring (2.5 T/E, BS3036 30A) in 1.5mm T+E for approx 4M, to a .

Try 473-02-02 Max 3m ?

 

[kme]

Try 473-02-02 Max 3m ?

nice one Mr. Slip

Was that also in 15th?

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

[quote name=

Was that also in 15th?

No idea, my 15th is lost with the 14th

 

[kme]

Spend 1hr (ish? :| ) looking for my 15th this afternoon.

14th? judging by your pic, I didn`t have you pegged as old enough to remember the yellow `un (at least I THINK it was yellow)???

 

[kme]

Thanks for all the input today guys - I`se off now. Busy day tomorrow (4 storey HMO door intercom / access.

Have a good night - cu2mora

KM

 

[steptoe]

do a 50v touch test on it and fook the regs.!!

is the 1.5T&E a 1.5 earth or a 1.0 earth?

or just note it as a deviation.

are we going to fail every house on july 2nd for not having enough RCDs fitted?

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

Spend 1hr (ish? :| ) looking for my 15th this afternoon.14th? judging by your pic, I didn`t have you pegged as old enough to remember the yellow `un (at least I THINK it was yellow)???

What pic ? None of ME here. The yellow was the first edition of the 16th (BS 7671,1992) The 14th was a light brown colour and A5 size

 

[welshwizard]

I think he meant you Aviatar - Slips.

 

[SLIPSHOD & SLAPDASH]

I think he meant you Aviatar - Slips.

OK

 

[welshwizard]

I said Your Aviatar, Not Mine.

Get it offfffff.

:^O

 

[The Godfather]

Regulations or not, there is a FCU in place, we are limited to 13A by a BS1362 fuse link.

And yes we should maintain the 2.5mm up to the FCU (compliance).

We have to consider worst case scenario:

Under a fault condition the (BS1362) fuse will blow, there will be no damage to the cable.

If we mark this a Code 2 (and insist or imply it should be rectified), it could be a costly repair, in particular to the decor of the installation.

Sometimes on an inspection, one should apply 'real world' solutions or comments.

but yes ultimately in this instance we have non compliance

Don

 

[The Godfather]

Should this post not be in the Inspection & Testing sub forum........?

Don