Router Help

[steptoe]

I need some help with my router settings,

changed my router to a draytek 2820 and Im now getting about half the speed I was with the providers standard router,

1 , what is  mtu  ?

my original router was set at 1432

the draytek is at  1432  , but, Im fairly certain I changed this from something else, [1442 I think]

2  ,  I have a static IP from talktalk  , when I go to  ookla it shows me as being from London and on tiscali   ????

thats the starter for 10, more to follow.

 

[Steve3948]

Have you tried your old router, these providers have a habit of slowing you down if you are a heavy user, they say they won't throttle but then mention fair usage policy.

When my son was at home gaming he would be hitting 6-10gb a night, then out of the blue our internet was half from 5:30pm to midnight.

Now they all offer streaming I thought those days had gone.

The lower the MTU the better I think, but too low and you start dropping packets I think.

 

[steptoe]

Dunno - Hows the mangle :slap

I need to get some ports forwarded so I can network it,,,,,,,,

Have you tried your old router, these providers have a habit of slowing you down if you are a heavy user, they say they won't throttle but then mention fair usage policy.

When my son was at home gaming he would be hitting 6-10gb a night, then out of the blue our internet was half from 5:30pm to midnight.

Now they all offer streaming I thought those days had gone.

The lower the MTU the better I think, but too low and you start dropping packets I think.

it was running around 3meg at last week, and Ive just downloaded a 600G file since then  :|

Ive just changed the mtu back to 1442 [the original draytek setting] and my speed is now running between 4 - 4&1/2   :C

 

[steptoe]

Ive been told I deffo will NOT get choked, because Im on a slow speed anyway, [ they cant offer me anything better than 7max ], and, if the service in my area is loaded then I get priority over domestic, and, apparently there is only one other non domestic on my network side of the box,

tell you what, Im surprised Im getting 4&1/2 after that file, so I think that proves Im not getting choked, I was getting a steady 3 all the way through it.

 

[steptoe]

does this mean I can run an mtu of 1492?

I dont see where its been fragmented?

if so, do I need to change the mtu of my computers as well as my router?

:~$ ping -s 1464 -c1 google.comPING google.com (173.194.34.134) 1464(1492) bytes of data.1472 bytes from google.com (173.194.34.134): icmp_req=1 ttl=55 time=152 ms--- google.com ping statistics ---1 packets transmitted, 1 received, 0% packet loss, time 0msrtt min/avg/max/mdev = 152.939/152.939/152.939/0.000 ms
Im confused now,

Im able to ping 1492 without fragmentation, thats mtu of 1520,

I didnt think you could run anything higher than 1500.

but what do I know?  :C

:~$ ping -s 1492 -c1 google.comPING google.com (173.194.41.66) 1492(1520) bytes of data.1500 bytes from google.com (173.194.41.66): icmp_req=1 ttl=55 time=47.8 ms--- google.com ping statistics ---1 packets transmitted, 1 received, 0% packet loss, time 0msrtt min/avg/max/mdev = 47.801/47.801/47.801/0.000 ms

 

[MeFil]

2  ,  I have a static IP from talktalk  , when I go to  ookla it shows me as being from London and on tiscali   ????

thats the starter for 10, more to follow.

talk talk aquired the uk operations of tiscali I believe. So I assume your static ip address is served off a tiscali router.

 

[steptoe]

talk talk aquired the uk operations of tiscali I believe. So I assume your static ip address is served off a tiscali router.

ah, thanks, thats one part sorted,

why TF does it show London though?  Im in Manchester......

 

[steptoe]

Mine shows as Yorkshire but I'm on the south coast  :Salute

are you up at Paddy's getting your share of the bread&butter first?   :slap

 

[MeFil]

ah, thanks, thats one part sorted,

why TF does it show London though?  Im in Manchester......

hmmm..... that one is a bit tricky to explain.

I would have expected that talk talk had equipment co-located in your local exchange. Although that doesnt seem to be the case here. I would imagine that talk talk are providing you service via an ip interconnect with bt. By that I mean bt bundle up a load of talk talk customers in your area and aggregate the traffic and send it via their ip network to an interconnect with talk talk. Probably in London.

I think this is called a wholesale ip interconnect.

Hope I've explained that in a clearish manner. Its been a very long time since I worked with this stuff..

 

[steptoe]

OK,

next question,

how do I forward ports on my router?

Draytek Vigor 2820

Ive followed the instructions here , but my router is different and Im thinking I need to do something else,

I looked everywhere on the router I can think of, but Im lost,  :C

 

[steptoe]

I can post some screen shots next week when I'm back in the office - other than that sorry

im in no major panic,

Ive downloaded the manual, and will have a look through that,

but Im not giving myself much hope,  :|

 

[gembrain]

Hi Steptoe,

I'm not super techie on the intricacies of broadband but used to have Draytek for years with VPNs setup and port forwarding for CCTV, email, etc.

They are great for features but frustrating for flaky firmware and underpowered internal processing. That said, my old 2800 would stay rock solid for months and months as long as I disabled the wireless...

For Draytek check that you haven't got QoS enabled by default. If so - disable it.

Worth pulling up the router stats to see what the signal to noise ratio figures are normally and packet loss stats. If you get an unexplained slowdown then pull them up again and compare. If they've worsened then it can indicate an intermittent line degradation.

Default MTU for TalkTalk routers is indeed 1432. Setting the MTU too high for your circumstances can lead to lower download speeds.

Happy to help with the port forwarding if needed. I assume you have gone to draytek.co.uk and registered so you can get at all their support documents? I can't now as I haven't got a Draytek to give them a serial number....

Also worth registering at www.forum.draytek.co.uk . There are people on there who will help out.

Cheers.

 

[Bruspark]

Just in case this is not resolved.  the MTU setting decides at what size of packets passing through a device they will be split up to make sure they can get through any likely internet paths switch configuration without being broken up there. 

Think of conduit sent out in 3m lengths to hopefully fit most vans.  If you have to try and get originally 3m lengths into your 2m van you will end up with lots of bits and pieces - that's fragmentation.     If the conduit comes in any length up to your van size it doesn't get cut up.  If you don't want to end up with your van full of lots of 1m bits you need to ensure you are supplied with 2m lengths in the first place.  This is the idea of setting a lower MTU.

BT used to have a problem with certain switches on their network a decade ago and recommended everyone use an MTU of 1458 IIRC for safety.  Since then they have fixed this and reckon 99% of paths to be ok to over 1500 now.  BT home hubs are NOW set to 1500 MTU as default

WIndows has a default MTU of 1500, has done for ages, so it sends out packets of the corresponding maximum size (not 1500bytes but not getting too technical!)   Windows also has a thing called Path MTU discovery which reduces packet size if the far end reports fragmentation happened on the way.  So basically Windows manages it.    If you try to out-think this and set your router to less , say 1458, Windows will eventually notice that it's 1500 size packets are being fragmented by your router and adapt to avoid this - slowing the connection speed a bit.  Even if you can go in and force windows to use, say1458, try telling your iphone or ipad or TV what to do in the same way.  
So the router setting is largely irrelevant these days as long as it is 1500 or above.  Set the router to it's default (normally 1500 these days) or manually to 1500 MTU and let all the the clever end-point devices work it out for themselves.  If you have fragmentation at the 1500 setting using modern devices and OS's see if you have any vintage switches /hubs on your home network . .

 

[steptoe]

Just in case this is not resolved.  the MTU setting decides at what size of packets passing through a device they will be split up to make sure they can get through any likely internet paths switch configuration without being broken up there. 

Think of conduit sent out in 3m lengths to hopefully fit most vans.  If you have to try and get originally 3m lengths into your 2m van you will end up with lots of bits and pieces - that's fragmentation.     If the conduit comes in any length up to your van size it doesn't get cut up.  If you don't want to end up with your van full of lots of 1m bits you need to ensure you are supplied with 2m lengths in the first place.  This is the idea of setting a lower MTU.

BT used to have a problem with certain switches on their network a decade ago and recommended everyone use an MTU of 1458 IIRC for safety.  Since then they have fixed this and reckon 99% of paths to be ok to over 1500 now.  BT home hubs are NOW set to 1500 MTU as default

WIndows has a default MTU of 1500, has done for ages, so it sends out packets of the corresponding maximum size (not 1500bytes but not getting too technical!)   Windows also has a thing called Path MTU discovery which reduces packet size if the far end reports fragmentation happened on the way.  So basically Windows manages it.    If you try to out-think this and set your router to less , say 1458, Windows will eventually notice that it's 1500 size packets are being fragmented by your router and adapt to avoid this - slowing the connection speed a bit.  Even if you can go in and force windows to use, say1458, try telling your iphone or ipad or TV what to do in the same way.  

So the router setting is largely irrelevant these days as long as it is 1500 or above.  Set the router to it's default (normally 1500 these days) or manually to 1500 MTU and let all the the clever end-point devices work it out for themselves.  If you have fragmentation at the 1500 setting using modern devices and OS's see if you have any vintage switches /hubs on your home network . .

Thanks,

I think, iirc, my router has a max MTU of 1492, which +the 8 Packet label makes it 1500, I suppose.

 

[gembrain]

Nice to see that Draytek keeping their menus clear and well laid out - unlike the cpra boxes that O2 send out....

On the MTU question a router setting of 1500 is indeed fine for virtually all situations nowadays. Above 1500 is not - that takes you over the normal Ethernet limit and into jumbo frames.

 

[gembrain]

Just noticed Steptoes comment on max MTU of 1492. That's the max for a connection using PPPoe. 1500 is for PPPoa.