shaver spured of sockets

[Apache]

Doesn't comply for bathrooms as it does not have an isolating transformer! :_|

headbangheadbangheadbangheadbang

 

[sellers]

I think this has run its course now,

outcome is shaver on a ring is fine

fusing it would be better

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

I know that, but can you please explain to me how the isolating transformer works? I thought by separating the socket from the mains only a small current could flow protecting the user of said equipment? Have I got this wrong?

Isolating transformer has NO direct path back to earth..

Therefore NO direct path back from transformer secondary through bath taps to earth!!

Transformer VP/VS = IP/IS

See Admins formula page...

http://www.electricianforum.co.uk/electricalformulas.html

So if vp/vs = 230/230 then IS =IP

Current NO change as Voltage NO change..

Just isolated from earth!

 

[Andy™]

Yes, that does make some sense. You'd hope a short length of 2.5mm T&E could take the current for the short time to trip the CPD?mmm

the 2.5 would hold up to a dead short. but imagine if the insulation breaks down, and there is 15a flowing through that little cable.... not enough to trip 32A MCB, but enough to trip B6 or blow a 3a fuse

 

[sellers]

How do we know that a B16, B10 or B6 fuse is adequate?

 

[Lee321]

I think this has run its course now,outcome is shaver on a ring is fine

fusing it would be better

how bizarre not one person has sided with you on that decision!

ask the client would they like it safer for the small cost of

 

[Andy™]

How do we know that a B16, B10 or B6 fuse is adequate?

unless it says in instructions, then we dont know for sure. but either way, they are all better than 32A

 

[steptoe]

yeah theres a few reasons, it may ruin decoration, it will add on to the cost + time of the job and I don't need to fuse down for it? Would you call it penny pinching everytime you spured off a socket without fusing?

spurring off a socket has fused protection.

I think this has run its course now,outcome is shaver on a ring is fine in the world of 5 day wonders maybe

fusing it would be better

F'in 5DW

headbang headbang headbang headbang headbang

yet another fire and possibly death waiting to happen and people wonder why sparks get a bad name,

you shouldnt even bother with scam membership doing jobs like that with the attitude of well it wasnt in the instructions your honour.

I used to think you were one of the better ones Sellers, you have just shown yourself up as bad as the rest,

you have absolutely no place to ever **** a kitchen fitter or plumber again, or anyone else for doing a dodgy job, not even the pratts on cowboy builders or watchdog.

putting lives at risk for a couple of quid,

I once said that anyone can wire something,

being a spark is all about knowing how not to fry them,

well I suppose this also answers the thread about competence too.

shame on you.

 

[Bwy]

We have just passed our annual assessment. During the inspection we were told that the job we did was above regulation requirements.

He went on to say..........

"if every electrician used common sense by using regulations as a guide and not a bible then we would have a better class of Electrician"

We consider it better to exceed regulations and in this case, like all the other good sparks, we would most definitely down fuse.

As a costing exercise try this..............which costs more........a fused spur or a funeral ????

 

[sellers]

Shame on me following regs hey.

Steps I don't know who you think your calling a 5 day wonder? I exceed the regs many times day to day, but like you say common sence prevails, and when someone doesn't want decor destroying and there is an easier way round something then it has to be done as long as its to regs.

If you can produce good evidence that a shaver is safe on a B6 breaker please do share, because otherwise we may all be endangering our customers lives by pressuming that one aswell!

Goes back to that reg in the big red book pg 343 'thats how I've always done it, so it must be right'

If your so eager to prove that a shaver on a 32amp breaker is downright dangerous, prove its safe on a 6 or 10.

 

[Andy™]

If your so eager to prove that a shaver on a 32amp breaker is downright dangerous, prove its safe on a 6 or 10.

not saying its downright dangerous on a 32A, but it is safer on a 6A (or 3A fuse).

and if you put the FCU surface, you wont have any damage

 

[steptoe]

Shame on me following regs hey.Steps I don't know who you think your calling a 5 day wonder? I exceed the regs many times day to day, but like you say common sence prevails, and when someone doesn't want decor destroying and there is an easier way round something then it has to be done as long as its to regs.

If you can produce good evidence that a shaver is safe on a B6 breaker please do share, because otherwise we may all be endangering our customers lives by pressuming that one aswell!

Goes back to that reg in the big red book pg 343 'thats how I've always done it, so it must be right'

If your so eager to prove that a shaver on a 32amp breaker is downright dangerous, prove its safe on a 6 or 10.

so are going to wire this in 6mm then ?

its the min size cable that can carry 32A unfused.

and how are you going to damage the decor?

are you really that inept that you are unable to sink a single box without damaging the surroundings.?

following regs is a bare minimum if you HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING as to how something should be done properly.

obviously you have no pride in what you do soi just keep on doing the bare minimum,

but it may be prudent of you to stop giving advice to others as they may actually think it is correct as to being good advice,

just as an after thought,

wonder how ELECSA would think of your comment as to just do the bare minimum.?

 

[sellers]

I agree andy, absolutley deffinatley safer on a 6amp.

It is easy being on the other side of the pc, but I don't think the customer would appreciate a surface mounted spoiling their bedroom wall.

 

[kme]

This is Electricity. Inherently, it isn`t safe. Thats why there are "specialists" to deal with the stuff.

We should be aiming to make things "as safe as is practicable" as a matter of course.

"Doesn`t want decor destroying"???? If you need to make a mess of a wall to fit a fused spur; that isn`t the best practices` fault, its yours.

Drill the wall at an angle, then back through; allowing you to fit a U/F/S adjacent to the existing socket, with shaver point on opposite wall. No safe zone issue; best practice adhered to, and no un-necessary damage to decor.

"Prove its safe on a B6 or B10"???

Are you serious? If you are having to make statements like that to attempt justification of your position, it gives (me) the impression that you`ve run out of "valid" arguments, TBH.

No offence intended, but if you go any further out on that particular limb, you`ll be sitting on a leaf. Please note that it is currently Autumn..........

KME

( LL-TotD] )

 

[sellers]

I was under the impression that to make factual statements you had to back them up with evidence, non of which I have seen, saying this way is incorrect.

As for ELECSA they assess on the ability to work to 7671 and Building regs so no problems there.

 

[Evans Electric]

I can't think of any device being connected directly to a ring main other than a socket or spur unit, then anything added is fused appropriately . Thats how 13A rings are supposed to work .

However I agree that it has all been said now , the question was asked , the opinions were offered, the fat lady has sung , one day the Sun will diminish ,the Earth will die and become another dead planet suspended for eternity in the vastness of the universe and if there are other life forms they will not know that we ever existed.

Until, that is , a transmission of this thread reaches them in 100,000 light years time and when deciphered , they will say " Look they were connecting shavers direct to ring mains , EXTERMINATE !!!!! EXTERMINATE !!!!!!! "

Sorry guys, my ridiculous sense of humour is taking over. I'll call for the medication .

 

[Mr Smith]

if it is the general consensus

then the thread can be closed at this point

before it degenerates

yea or nay

ladies and gentlemen ?

mr smith

 

[Andy™]

yay

 

[Evans Electric]

Yea , time to move on.

 

[kme]

And a yes from me.