Solar predicament

[Andy1733]

We have already sent application and they have sent offer (to g100), but my MCS guy ******** off, probably because he realised he couldn’t certify the array.

I’ve been in an excruciating back and forth with with the person responsible for our case at SPEN, who just keeps repeating that they cannot approve anything without MCS. It’s like talking to a broken record player.

Pretty close to shooting myself in the face.

Please don't shoot yourself in the face.

Have you tried a g98 application? At least make use of some of the equipment.

 

[Vagabondrobb]

Sent a final email, spelling out why (according to the MCS website itself and SPENs own guidelines) they shouldn't be able to deny me a connection!

If I get the same response I've got the contact details of her superior, so I will do that before anything else.

 

[Murdoch]

With the amount of DIY installs these days how do they even know you or any of these installs exist?

 

[binky]

With the amount of DIY installs these days how do they even know you or any of these installs exist?

Basically they don't, as no one goes around looking. I suspect an array may only come to light if there's a fault in the road, or silly bugger builds a50kw array backfeeding the grid.

 

[Vagabondrobb]

So we have heard back from someone more senior, who seems to be saying the same thing, which is basically "computer says no". MCS is apparently the mark of a competent person these days.

Screw them. Waste of my time.

Now thinking of using a hybrid inverter like this as an ATS with solar priority https://www.eossolarsolutions.co.uk...erter-by-iconica-100a-mppt-150a-charger-wifi/

Good idea?

We are keen to assist you with your PV installation however there are some minimum standards which must be complied with before we will allow connection to our network. The principle standard in question is the Energy Networks Association (ENA) Engineering Recommendation G99 which all UK DNOs must comply with.



I have attached both the summary guide and the full version from the ENA to this e-mail for your information and also a copy of the ENA ER G100 which relates to the export limiting scheme you would have to install in this area due to local restrictions.



The key points in relation to your installation are the fundamental requirements for a competent installer which is demonstrated via MCS certification (see page 5 of the summary guide). It is the very first item on the overview of getting connected and is designed to ensure that installations are safe and compliant with the relevant regulations and codes of practice (i.e. ENA ER G99, ENA ER G100, BS7671, etc).



I hope this information and the attached guides assist in clarifying the minimum requirements and we look forward to working with you and your appointed installer to get your installation connected.



If you have any further queries please let me know.



Kind Regards

 

[binky]

Looks like an interesting piece of kit, although Victron is the gear of choice on this forum fo off-grid. Question is, will it be sufficient for what you want mid winter? I see it will also accept a grid connection, so you could power from the grid mid winter to top up batteries - install an isolator so it can't back feed the grid in summer.

 

[bladerunnerpv]

It does look interesting, well spotted.

Some on the forum have victron kit and should be able to help more than I can.

IIRC wrt Victron
i) the Easysolar has inbuilt MPPT, battery charge and grid i/o all in one but would not cope with 10kW solar, just checking the specs max AC output is 4kW, max PV input is 5800W, for the biggest version
ii) The Multiplus series can battery charge, do grid i/o, but needs a separate PV inverter.
iii) The Quattro series can battery charge, do grid i/o, take generator input with option to autostart, but again needs a separate PV inverter.

The victron inverters I've found only go up to 450V Voc, so with 24 panels you could need more than one PV inverter

This tool will help choose
https://www.victronenergy.com/mppt-calculatoryou can enter your panel details and it will propose suitable kit

Off top of the head the Victron Smart Solar RS MPPT 450/200 might be suitable, it has 4x MPPT trackers,

Check Voc limits carefully though, some of the bigger units have an MPPT upper limit which is also limited to 8x battery float voltage.

I had a very quick search on the ENA test type register for iconica but couldn't find them, I may just have missed them though.

best of luck with your woes

 

[Vagabondrobb]

Looks like an interesting piece of kit, although Victron is the gear of choice on this forum fo off-grid. Question is, will it be sufficient for what you want mid winter? I see it will also accept a grid connection, so you could power from the grid mid winter to top up batteries - install an isolator so it can't back feed the grid in summer.

I'm not really fussed about charging batteries from grid at all, if that makes things simpler.

Currently we have a small diesel generator hooked up to a manual transfer switch which we use during power cuts (we live out in the sticks). So my logic is why not have an automatic switch for solar, which ultimately defers to grid, but keeps both separate (and therefore of no business to the dno). From the perspective of a layman the iconica apparently allows you to do this by selecting an output source priority:

Output source priority: This intelligent feature allows the user to set output source preferences (solar/battery power/mains input or a generator) for the AC load output of the inverter. This menu includes several options for varying conditions and scenarios, e.g., which source of energy is given priority for the AC output if solar power is insufficient/if battery voltage is too low/if mains is unavailable, etc.

But perhaps not that simple, I don't know!

@bladerunnerpv With regard to Victron, I'm open to them - most people I speak to recommend them. I just have a hard time getting my head around the different bits of kit. I'm also reluctant as the cost of a Victron system does seem to rack up a little.

I guess I really need to do some more research - as I said in my first post, we had an MCS guy designing the system, but he buggered off after making the grid application, leaving me to pick up the pieces, which isn't easy for the uninitiated. Especially when the dno actively refrain from giving any help or advice.

 

[binky]

If it will take an input from a generator, sounds like what you need.

For off grid, I've always worked on the battery as the central part if the system, with multiple inputs, ie genie , solar etc, connected via their own battery charge controllers, and a separate pure sine wave inverter output. But I've only ever done simple setup for a stable block lights with a single socket to charge battery tools or boil a small kettle.

 

[bladerunnerpv]

@Vagabondrobb
Yes, it seems Victron are a bit 'different'. I think it comes from the point of view of marine and RV applications and then moving into off-grid and grid-tied. From what I've read of victron kit they are well suited to working with a generator due to that marine and RV experience.

They have community forum, post short rather than an essay and you're more likely to get a reply.

Agreed about the ££. Supposedly most chinese kit started as knock-offs of SMA or Victron

IMHO wrt battery go for it, you'll get the most out of the PV that way, typically energy use is morning and evening which is at the shoulders of PV generation, so battery stores the peak energy for when you want it.

In case it helps I have come across these links on my travels
https://www.bimblesolar.com/best-practiceshttps://www.bimblesolar.com/on-grid-guide
I've heard ref to dragonsbreathsolar too wrt off-grid.

Lots of off-grid know-how and discussion at www.diysolarforum.com, quite American oriented though, ppl powering log cabins etc.

I hear your point about uninitiated, I've been investigating this stuff for nearly a year and I'm still learning things! You've been very badly let down by the guy walking off the job.

Could you use the array just for the self catering ?

 

[Mr Aargh]

You do need mcs because otherwise you can't get paid for export. What do local mcs installers say when you ask about people they know who might be able to do it?

 

[Ucatchmydrift]

Sorry to hear the nonsence youve had to put up with, just absolutely typical of this country. I have done my own diy setup, off grid. But using a hybrid inverter. It allows you to take cheap rate leccy in winter from the grid (currently 8pkw/h edf), store it in the batteries and use during the day, saves ALOT of money if you have enough storage to last you the day. Diy lifepo4 storage is not simple, but worth it imo. Diysolarforum.com (and obviously this forum) have been a huge help. Good luck .

 

[bladerunnerpv]

Hi Ucatchmydrift, just wondering how you managed off grid setup yet able to charge batteries from grid in winter ?
Sounds much like what the OP could wish for as a 'fix' to his problems.

 

[Ucatchmydrift]

Hi Ucatchmydrift, just wondering how you managed off grid setup yet able to charge batteries from grid in winter ?
Sounds much like what the OP could wish for as a 'fix' to his problems.

Hi, i installed new sockets in the house (alongside the on - grid ones), a double socket in each room and a couple in the kitchen on a ring main etc. (the panels are on my workshop and a shed in the garden, with inverter and storage in the workshop, and armoured cable into the house loft etc)


If you have an all in one hybrid inverter, this can then be used to 'pass through' grid power automatically to those sockets when/if you run out of storage/solar. As the inverter is not grid tied and has no ability to feed back to the grid, then no DNO/MCS or whoever is needed to be informed as the inverter is simply like powering any other device off the grid if/when needed. As the inverter is an all in one, it also has the ability to send that grid power to the battery banks to shedule charge them during the winter at cheap rate, allowing me to use that cheap power during the day.. You then also have the benefit of being able to just plug things back into the normal grid sockets if you have a problem with your setup (not needed yet! - touch wood lol).
I also did diy storage same as john on here (14.4kw lifepo4 for ~£2500) which is proving to be very reliable so far (just 9 months in so far).
And i use a rasperry pi mini computer to send all the inverter/battery bank shunts/bmses etc data into the house via Home Assistant to keep a check on things. (i also use port forwarding on my router to allow me to view everything from anywhere in the world now)


(£16 android tablet from ebay with a diy surround i made from wood lol) (very poor day for solar today, raining all day!)

Personally ive loved every minute of it all and would recommend it to anyone that wants an exciting but involved project. Not sure if it would suit the OP, but maybe he may consider it?....