Solar PV system with not tied into the grid?

[Jean de Florette]

My original aim in installing a solar PV array to my bungalow's south facing roof was predicated on capitalizing on the decades spent in industry looking after electrical distribution systems, machine control interfaces, all coupled together a whole myriad of day-to-day safe working practices, so that I could install the whole PV array and control system myself, and it might save me a few quid into the bargain. I am not by nature a 'suck it and see' practitioner, so getting the whole system accurately sorted and quantified is paramount to beginning the project. So you can imagine just how disappointing it is to find that - according to the regulations, I am not allowed to begin work prior to an inspection of my roof structure! Apparently, a PV array is permissible - under normal circumstances when using an approved installer, under what is called 'permitted development', but any attempt to DIY will require planning approval. There must be a lot of folk out there who can shine some light on this for me. What really is the legal position, and allowing for any local planning constraints, what can a competent DIYer do?

 

[johnb2713]

There must be a lot of folk out there who can shine some light on this for me. What really is the legal position, and allowing for any local planning constraints, what can a competent DIYer do?

Get a commercial installer to the roof stuff etc and then do the rest yourself.

Or you of course just carry on, who's likely to complain?

J

 

[binky]

My original aim in installing a solar PV array to my bungalow's south facing roof was predicated on capitalizing on the decades spent in industry looking after electrical distribution systems, machine control interfaces, all coupled together a whole myriad of day-to-day safe working practices, so that I could install the whole PV array and control system myself, and it might save me a few quid into the bargain. I am not by nature a 'suck it and see' practitioner, so getting the whole system accurately sorted and quantified is paramount to beginning the project. So you can imagine just how disappointing it is to find that - according to the regulations, I am not allowed to begin work prior to an inspection of my roof structure! Apparently, a PV array is permissible - under normal circumstances when using an approved installer, under what is called 'permitted development', but any attempt to DIY will require planning approval. There must be a lot of folk out there who can shine some light on this for me. What really is the legal position, and allowing for any local planning constraints, what can a competent DIYer do?

Structural survey is allways good practice.

I am not aware that permissive development only applies to MCS registered companies?

Whose ever going to check if there isn't other restrictions like conservation area status or listed building status, that the neighbours could complain about.

 

[michael8554]

Hi Jean

Are there any bungalows like yours with PV ?

Then if your roof timbers are in good condition you should be okay.

 

[binky]

Hi Jean

Are there any bungalows like yours with PV ?

Then if your roof timbers are in good condition you should be okay.

Uk roof structures are designed for 5ft of snow loading, or something like that, so it's unlikely to be an issue, an array being around 500kg spread over the entire roof. You can of course use an in roof mounting system and remove the weight of any tiles or slates if you do have any concerns.

 

[Geoff1946]

My bungalow was built in the 1950s and I'm sure the roof structure could stand an elephant landing on it!
When I had my system installed in 2013 the installers surveyor tried to con me (my opinion) that it didn't meet the requirements for wind uplift, and I needed to have straps added down the internal walls. Having just decorated through, I told the solar supplier that I was cancelling the whole project and, magically, the surveyor found an error in his calculations and decided everything was OK. Beware surveyors!

 

[Jean de Florette]

I know that ordinarily a solar PV system would be tied into the grid, and feeding-in to the grid when not used. But I do not want to feed into the grid, and neither do I wish to go completely 'off grid'. I want to use the solar array to run a 3KW immersion heater fitted to a 300Ltr indirect cylinder. When the water reaches temperature, the PV are then charging the battery system. When the weather is too dull to meet the immersion heater demand, then the battery system runs, via the inverter, to supply immersion demand. This proposed system would be earthed separately from the grid system using suitably located earth rods, hence the S/S tank would be earthed to the ground rods, and all associated domestic hot water pipes would be in plastic - including the CW rising main into the HW tank. Obviously, the generation of the grid supply means that there can never be any link between grid supplied earth and the 'floating' PV array derived 240V AC supply to the HW immersion heater.
Does anyone see any valid technical or regulatory reason why this could not be done?

As anyone out there ever heard of 'readers digest syndrome'? Well, three months on from my first posting, I find myself replying to my own original June posting. I still intend to fit a solar PV array to my roof. During the last three months, I have found this forum to be a most useful source of information, so much so that I have decided that the only really safe, sure, and legally responsible way of fitting the said array is to employ a competent person to do it. Thanks to all those out there who have been members for a great deal longer than myself, your many replies to my posts - and others like me, have enabled me to admit my own limitations.

I have had many years of experience in maintaining electrical, electronic, hydraulic, and even pneumatic production machinery, test equipment, and so etc etc, on land and even at sea, so getting on with the job myself is what I wish to do. But, a recent post I saw on this forum just filled me with fear that there are folk out there who appear to be suffering from 'readers digest syndrome' c'set a dire; a little knowledge is a dangerous thing! Such unbridled enthusiasm on the part of some of us will ultimately lead to newspaper headlines that read: 'DIY enthusiast burns down family home - two dead as tighter legislation called for'.

In the end I know I could probably have done a safe and acceptable job of a PV array, but I would not have any legitimate certification to back what I had done, no matter how proficient the work. So, despite the new smarter systems and flexible export tariff systems (Octopus Agile, etc), the network provider would not allow my system to ever export to the grid. Furthermore, my house insurers would probably not want to underwrite my property as I had no certification for the work. Furthermore, if I did the work myself, and did a good safe competent job, I would probably have to spend a good deal in finding someone to inspect and certify my work, all of which when added together with material costs, would have added up to a great deal more time and money than it will cost to have the job done by a certified PV fitter.

Last but not least, the idea of making sur the phase and amplitude of the PV array were correct to export had me filled with unease. I just did not like the idea that my enthusiasm could lead me to a point where I was doing something I shouldn't.

As Bill Moog once said: "Trust is a must, competence is king".

Thanks for the guidance.

 

[binky]

As anyone out there ever heard of 'readers digest syndrome'? Well, three months on from my first posting, I find myself replying to my own original June posting. I still intend to fit a solar PV array to my roof. During the last three months, I have found this forum to be a most useful source of information, so much so that I have decided that the only really safe, sure, and legally responsible way of fitting the said array is to employ a competent person to do it. Thanks to all those out there who have been members for a great deal longer than myself, your many replies to my posts - and others like me, have enabled me to admit my own limitations.

I have had many years of experience in maintaining electrical, electronic, hydraulic, and even pneumatic production machinery, test equipment, and so etc etc, on land and even at sea, so getting on with the job myself is what I wish to do. But, a recent post I saw on this forum just filled me with fear that there are folk out there who appear to be suffering from 'readers digest syndrome' c'set a dire; a little knowledge is a dangerous thing! Such unbridled enthusiasm on the part of some of us will ultimately lead to newspaper headlines that read: 'DIY enthusiast burns down family home - two dead as tighter legislation called for'.

In the end I know I could probably have done a safe and acceptable job of a PV array, but I would not have any legitimate certification to back what I had done, no matter how proficient the work. So, despite the new smarter systems and flexible export tariff systems (Octopus Agile, etc), the network provider would not allow my system to ever export to the grid. Furthermore, my house insurers would probably not want to underwrite my property as I had no certification for the work. Furthermore, if I did the work myself, and did a good safe competent job, I would probably have to spend a good deal in finding someone to inspect and certify my work, all of which when added together with material costs, would have added up to a great deal more time and money than it will cost to have the job done by a certified PV fitter.

Last but not least, the idea of making sur the phase and amplitude of the PV array were correct to export had me filled with unease. I just did not like the idea that my enthusiasm could lead me to a point where I was doing something I shouldn't.

As Bill Moog once said: "Trust is a must, competence is king".

Thanks for the guidance.

you may also like this quote from Red Adaire. Having seeen the clammer for DiY on other forums and FB, I am expecting a lot of leaky roofs, fires and panels blowing off if we have a major storm, coz no one ever discusses the screws that hold it all to the roof - major point the screws .

 

[johnb2713]

you may also like this quote from Red Adaire. Having seeen the clammer for DiY on other forums and FB, I am expecting a lot of leaky roofs, fires and panels blowing off if we have a major storm, coz no one ever discusses the screws that hold it all to the roof - major point the screws .

View attachment 14022

Oh soooooo true.

Just to provide balance..........