special locations

[butler26]

hi every one

doing a board change next month for an Elecsa assessment, so did some testing for supplementary bonding in my bathroom and could not see any and the plumbing is done in copper

but all connections joining copper pipes are pvc any way this means that the copper pipes in my bathroom connecting the taps to the bath and sink are not connected to my main protective bonding as i have proved it with meter and wander lead.i can not get access under the floor or the bath as the bath room is fully tiled so there is no way i could run a seperate earth to the pipes.reg 701.415.2 applies 411.3.2.2 applies 701.411.3.3 applies 411.3.1.2 applies now the only regs that comply in this location is reg 411.3.2.2 and 701.411.3.3 when filling out a test cert when ive finished the board change shall i shall i make a note of this where it sayscomments on existing istallation

thanks

 

[Manator]

A simple continuity check from your radiators to other metal parts within the bathroom would confirm if you need supplementary bonding or not.

Supplementary bonding is used to equalise the potential between two parts so that any voltage variation under fault conditions can not be equalised through your body.

 

[butler26]

none of my radiators are bonded, i bought this house about 7 years ago so dont no if this was compliant back then

 

[Doc Hudson]

But are they extraneous introducing an earth potential?

Doc H.

 

[Manator]

7 years ago the 16th edition was the regulations, it may be wired to a previous regulation were bonding was not required.

if you are changing the consumer unit for your assessment then you will be doing the work to the new regulations, and fitting RCD protection to circuits, therefore supplementary bonding will not be required, providing certain parameters are acheived.

 

[butler26]

the pipe work connecting the water to the radiators and water is a mix of copper and pvc so there is no direct path to the main eath if that makes sense

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 21:30 ---------- Previous post was made at 21:29 ----------

the new board is a high integ with dual rcds so would i make a comment that there is no the supp bonding in the bathroom

thanks

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 21:32 ---------- Previous post was made at 21:30 ----------

reg 701.415.2 (vi)is not compliant

 

[Zeespark]

What isn't compliant Butler?

AndyGuinness

 

[Manator]

When you have your assessment you will have to convince your assessor that you are competant to carry out all tests, one of the ways you can prove this is by knowing which tests are required and when to carry out the tests. You will need to have in your possesion the new regulations book, as well as the new on site guide. Both of these books describe when and why to carry out the tests, my advise is to read and re read these books until you are satisfied that anything you are unsure of is fully understood.

I only install medical locations and as such all pipework and all electrical servises are bonded to an earth reference bar within or external to each surgery, and disconnection times are 0.02 seconds. So I may be a little out of touch with what the domestic market is doing, but I would assume they are doing the installation works to the same standard that I am required to.

 

[Robin Spark]

Hi Butler,

read 701.415.2 AGAIN.

Look carefully as well from where it starts to say " where the location containing a bath or shower.........."

Then get back to us and tell us what you think you might need to do and check to satisfy the current regulations.

 

[Doc Hudson]

the pipe work connecting the water to the radiators and water is a mix of copper and pvc so there is no direct path to the main eath if that makes sense---------- Post Auto-Merged at 21:30 ---------- Previous post was made at 21:29 ----------

the new board is a high integ with dual rcds so would i make a comment that there is no the supp bonding in the bathroom

thanks

---------- Post Auto-Merged at 21:32 ---------- Previous post was made at 21:30 ----------

reg 701.415.2 (vi)is not compliant

From your first comment your pipework sounds as though it is non-extraneous therefore (vi) is not relevant, I suspect you will be compliant with (iv) suitable Zs's and (v) full RCD protection. This can quickly be checked with a simple continuity test.

Doc H.

 

[butler26]

hi there

i think i might need to use the formulae in reg 415.2.2

please correct me if im wrong

thanks

 

[Robin Spark]

hi there i think i might need to use the formulae in reg 415.2.2

please correct me if im wrong

thanks

No mate, you are barking up the wrong tree. If you are going to install a new consumer unit with rcd protection to all circuits in the bathroom, if your Z's comply and you have checked that earthing and main protective bonding of extraneous parts (ie main bond to gas meter and water stop cock) is up to standard, then no need for supplementary bonding in your bathroom.

 

[Doc Hudson]

hi there i think i might need to use the formulae in reg 415.2.2

please correct me if im wrong

thanks

Remember the supplementary bonding is between exposed conductive parts of electrical equipment and extraneous conductive parts. Have you confirmed if your metal work is actually extraneous yet, i.e. what is the resistance between your metal pipes in the bathroom and actual real earth potential? or have you not checked this? Just looking at a pipe and seeing one section is plastic and one section is copper cannot establish if it is extraneous unless you can visibly see it disappearing into the ground, such as a downstairs metal stop tap. What do you think your assessor would ask you to test your knowledge of this. Try thinking about how electricity will actually flow in the event of a fault. In some occasions adding an earth to a piece of metal that was not previously earthy can increase the possibility of a shock current flowing.

Doc H.

 

[steptoe]

I think you need to learn the regs,

maybe even get some experience from a competent person,

now, I just need to check and see where our assessors are going to be for the next few weeks,

must keep them up to speed on checking for supplementary bonding and members knowledge of the requirements.

 

[Electroglow]

Didn't think u r registerd steps lol

 

[Manator]

Didn't think u r registerd steps lol

He was a QS for a company registered with the NICEIC so I guess thats enough of an accolade.

 

[Electroglow]

It's funny all this bonding and sup bonding. I always cross connect boilers but my assessor seems to think that it's to much... If it on a rcd it's ok just to bond the incoming gas and water supply.

If I was the op I would cont test and see if it needs bonding.

Most sparks now a days only bond water and gas at incoming

 

[Doc Hudson]

Didn't think u r registered steps lol

He was a QS for a company registered with the NICEIC so I guess thats enough of an accolade.

As Manator quite rightly says Steptoe carried the full weight of authority for compliance with all relevant electrical regulations with his previous employer and from my understanding he is currently establishing a new business venture. Which in no way detracts from his experience, knowledge or understanding of compliance with BS7671 and its associated statutory and non statutory regulations. However this point is not relevant to the topic in hand so hopefully we can come back to Butlers questions about Special Locations, (Thats the BS7671 definition of places not our forum member of a similar name.)

Doc H.

 

[steptoe]

oh I am,

just ask the guy that runs the AA meetings each Tuesday evening.!

 

[Doc Hudson]

Coming back on topic, Butler if you considr what Robin Spark says in post number 12 and you can prove that your bathroom pipework is not extraneous, can you see from the regulations that bonding is not required? this question is highlighting a difference between What we do and Why we do something. I think it could be a very good example thread for the other students reading the forum if we can guide it to a neat conclusion if Butler can confirm the electrical continuity state of the actual pipes in his special location.

.

Doc H.,