State the bleedin obvious!

[Sharpend]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58130705

I wonder how clever we are as a species? 
 

It takes scientists from all around the world to conclude that mankind is having a detrimental impact to this planet. 
I’d have thought that this was obvious to any human that has a brain? Surely we don’t need a scientist to tell us this, or is it we need them to show us with their evidence and modelling to convince us? 
What I find interesting is that pre industrial times were only 1.09° lower than now, is the planet really that sensitive that such a small change can cause such dramatic climate changes? 
 

thoughts? 

 

[Murdoch]

It’s the amount of humans that is the problem

 2 billion in 1920 

8 billion in 2020

 they never discuss the elephant in the room

 

[Geoff1946]

I absolutely agree; the human race has become a plague on the planet, BUT what is the link with climate change? 

I seriously doubt the CO2 theory upon which our politicians are basing their arguments. This belief has become a religion where supporting evidence is carefully gathered by people who know the conclusion they want.

Doubters are shut down by the media and there is little or no critical discussion. The BBC appears to have become the face of extreme climate hysteria. 

My personal opinion is that we are just seeing nature's fluctuating effects.

Regardless of who is right, the UK is a tiny part of the planet and unless the larger partners (China) share our beliefs and solutions any sacrifice we make is wasted.

 We should abandon the arrogant belief that we can control climate and turn our efforts to living with it.

 

[boltonsparky]

I’d have thought that this was obvious to any human that has a brain? Surely we don’t need a scientist to tell us this, or is it we need them to show us with their evidence and modelling to convince us? 

We do need to be told and warned and whatever else, as dumb as it sounds. The human race has known about this for decades but still we consume at a rate far greater than the planet can sustain. The planet is way over populated. I read somewhere that we are consuming at a rate of 1.5 planets and rising.  

The truth is the majority of the population don't care, so long as they can order their cheap tat off amazon and have it there the next morning to be chucked away again the following week because it's broken and isn't worth repairing, the latest gadgets every time there's a new one on the market, a new sofa every 6 months and all their food conveniently pre prepared and packaged for them and so on and so on. 

The powers at be bring in all these new rules and regulations that end up producing even more waste, the latest light bulb ban is a prime example. They bring in these regulations on our shores when it will barely make a difference globally so long as the likes of China et al are building power stations at the rate they are and pumping out pollutants at unprecedented levels.

We're all doomed  baddayexplode

 

[Andy™]

global warming has been happening for thousands of years... used to be covered in ice. sea levels have also been rising for thousands of years. watched something a while back that the north sea used to be dry land thousands of years ago but rising sea levels its now the north sea

global wamring was going to happen anyway. we definately are not helping and mkaing it worse, but i can guarantee if every human suddenly died then global warming will still happen anyway

 

[Sharpend]

Global warming is a natural cycle of the earth, however it doesn’t take a genius to understand why it has been accelerated, I’ll guarantee that if the human race was to stop  still long enough then the rate of change will be reduced dramatically. 
 

there were noticeable effects at the height of the worlds lockdowns due to COVID, that gives an example of how we affect the planet in what we do in our daily human activities. 
waters around Venice that are usually affected by the pollutants, became clearer. 
air quality improved as less traffic etc etc. 
So for people to be ignorant to the human effect leaves me lost for words. 
 

back in the caveman days when having fires as a form of cooking & heating I’m sure there was an element of climate warming taking place, the reason it wasn’t a problem is that the numbers of persons on the planet was significantly less then today. 
If each and every one of us contribute to global warming then each and every one of us can equally choose not to contribute, the only thing that stops us other than our own choice is the worlds way of doing things. 
so maybe we collectively need to make some changes?? 

 

[binky]

What I find interesting is that pre industrial times were only 1.09° lower than now, is the planet really that sensitive that such a small change can cause such dramatic climate changes? 
 

thoughts? 

Yes it is, 1oC is equivalent to all the energy generated by every power plant in the world. Now oyu throw that into the atmosphere and the weather systems all get bigger, so longer hotter droughts as well as longer periods of rain and floods.

 

[kerching]

Just driven three hours to stay with Daughter, granddaughters, son in law at RAF Conningsby.  Had radio on throughout the journey, 2 facts came to light

1) there is some climate change meeting on in Glasgow.....Scottish delegate has flown to 30 countries for fact finding!!

2) 2024 Olympics are in Paris, nearest surf available for the Surfers is......TAHITI!

we are definitely doomed

 

[binky]

It’s the amount of humans that is the problem

 2 billion in 1920 

8 billion in 2020

 they never discuss the elephant in the room

it does get discussed, but not enough. The answer oddly enough is the emancipation of women. Women with education and careers have less children, and later in life.

 

[binky]

I absolutely agree; the human race has become a plague on the planet, BUT what is the link with climate change? 

I seriously doubt the CO2 theory upon which our politicians are basing their arguments. This belief has become a religion where supporting evidence is carefully gathered by people who know the conclusion they want.

Doubters are shut down by the media and there is little or no critical discussion. The BBC appears to have become the face of extreme climate hysteria. 

My personal opinion is that we are just seeing nature's fluctuating effects.

Regardless of who is right, the UK is a tiny part of the planet and unless the larger partners (China) share our beliefs and solutions any sacrifice we make is wasted.

 We should abandon the arrogant belief that we can control climate and turn our efforts to living with it.

OK, so if we were following natural cycles then we should be heading into a mini ice age. CO2 is picked out as it's a direct result of burning fossil fuels, but it is far from the only threat. Methane for example is far worse, and as the world warms up and things like the permafrost melt, then it releases very large quantities of methane, and risks a run-away warming event that really would be serious. We exported all our industry to China, hence they have the biggest problem, but the Chinese are still not as bad as the USA as theri people tend to save money rather than buy lettuced. However, the Chinese government is investing heavily in green tech - you no doubt saw the flooding they have had and they aren't stupid. So we should do as much as we can - no harm in leading by example. It also offers reduction is reliance on fossil fuels such as oil and gas, which is turn will reduce our reliance on terrible regimes like the Saudis. 

 

 

[binky]

OK, so what can we do to help reduce our carbon footprints? Some ideas for you:-

1/ fly less and avoid things like cruise ships which are appalling waste of resoureces.

2/ eat less meat. I'm not saying go vegan as I also love a bacon butty, but buy less and ideally buy local which tends to be fresher and better quality.

3/ cook your own food and use everyhting you buy rather than overstock and throw food in the bin - old hat for the older generations.

4/ shove fashion were the sun doesn't shine! Cotton is dreadful waste of water, so buy better clothes that last and more 'classic' styles- I suspect fashion isn't an issue with the forum memebers  :^O  

5/ drive a little slower and in a smoother way, or better walk / cycle short distances. 50mph uses 30% less fuel than 70mph - I do find that one a little hard on the motorway, but I have reduced my average speed down from 90mph  :innocent

6/ no need to preach about LED lighting etc etc

7/ stick a brick in the toilet cistern to reduce water useage, likewise shower rather than bath.

8/ fit solar panels of you can

9/ reduce the number of pets - we spend £billions on pet food. This prevents over fishing the seas and waste of food on furry children who serve no real purpose. Or get small pets, a Jack Russell eats a lot less than a Great Dane. 

10/ plant a tree or 10, and garden to help wildlife.

11/ repair or upcycle goods / clothes.

12/ in short reduce consumption and waste - not easy sometimes, especially when supermarkets package everything is plastic wrappers. Ask yourself if you really need strawberries flown half way around the world at Xmas??? (They taste lettuced anyway).

That's just some simple things you can all do. Apart from saving the planet, it will save you money and is a good excuse to be tight fisted  :slap . 

So what happens if we do nothing? Simples, it's going to cost a FFFFFing big fortune to sort out the damage - think your insurance bills and house prices are high now, just wait until flooding wipes out half of London. Or the gov bails out unisured home owners who have been flooded or burn't out of their houses. This is the bit that really pees me off, governments have known this is an issue for decades but refused to spend money on green tech, yet can find billions for a useless railway line. Invest in the tech, become world leaders in manufacturing the tech such as hydrogen fuel cells, solar panels and wind turbines, fit high speed broadband for the entire country - why travel when you can 'zoom'. We could create a lot of good jobs, earn export money and save the planet. 

The planet will survive, it's mankind and nature that will suffer. 

 

[binky]

Just driven three hours to stay with Daughter, granddaughters, son in law at RAF Conningsby.  Had radio on throughout the journey, 2 facts came to light

1) there is some climate change meeting on in Glasgow.....Scottish delegate has flown to 30 countries for fact finding!!

2) 2024 Olympics are in Paris, nearest surf available for the Surfers is......TAHITI!

we are definitely doomed

 Doesn't set a good example does it, even if face to face meetings is the only way to do business sometimes. Aviation is a big problem that I reckon can only be solved by hydrogen fuel, or something very similar. I also want to travel a lot in retirement, the plan is to campervan around Europe, but Oz is only accessible by plane, which is a pain! 

 

[Geoff1946]

Binky, I have absolutely no argument with the measures you outline; indeed I already practice many of them, BUT do you really believe that graph you put up of historic CO2 level?

Perhaps I'm just old, grumpy and cynical but I find that sort of, "evidence"  really suspicious when it invariably comes from so called scientists who are trying to justify their already stated position.

Further, I believe that the last thing we need is politicians who probably couldn't get O level physics making prescriptive rules such as banning internal combustion engines, when these could, through ongoing development, possibly become the most efficient motive power available.

 

[Andy™]

  but Oz is only accessible by plane, which is a pain! 

well you could always swim. either way, even with a plane, its still not very accessible at the moment anyway

 

[binky]

well you could always swim. either way, even with a plane, its still not very accessible at the moment anyway

I once met an Ozzy lady who had travelled by ferry then  overland by bus to the UK, could be quite an adventure! 

 

[steptoe]

well you could always swim. either way, even with a plane, its still not very accessible at the moment anyway

Has no one thought to point out that Oz isn't in Europe,? 

He wants to campervan around Europe 

 

[Andy™]

Has no one thought to point out that Oz isn't in Europe,? 

He wants to campervan around Europe 

isnt oz considered close enough to europe to be in the eurovision though? cant be that far away. doubt they accept a continent on the otherside of the world

 

[Sharpend]

isnt oz considered close enough to europe to be in the eurovision though? cant be that far away. doubt they accept a continent on the otherside of the world

Perhaps they believe the world is flat so there isn’t an other side? 

 

[binky]

Binky, I have absolutely no argument with the measures you outline; indeed I already practice many of them, BUT do you really believe that graph you put up of historic CO2 level?

Perhaps I'm just old, grumpy and cynical but I find that sort of, "evidence"  really suspicious when it invariably comes from so called scientists who are trying to justify their already stated position.

Absolutely true figures. Those CO2 numbers have been taken from ice core samples and date back 600,000 years. (other sources of data also exist).These figures have been extensively scrutinised by the scientific community (that's many thousands of people) over decades and have been subjected to many many arguments. In fact the scientific community only agreed about the most likely course of climate change about 15 years ago. There are of course a few that totally disagree, but then there's also people who believe the world is flat, and the world is only 6000 years old. What you are mistaking here is politics with science, politicians have an axe to grind based on political bias and will bend figures for their own gain, scientists work on facts based on evidence, so if the vast majority are warning we are heading for impending doom, then we almost certainly are. You can of course use your own experience -  havn't you noticed how the weather has changed over the last 50-60 years? No longer do we get 3 weeks of solid snow and farmers cut off for weeks, worse floods, longer periods of rain then drought, melting ice caps and glaciers, sea levels rising, coral reefs dying, etc etc. " photos below from my backyard, Dartmoor. 1970's low level snow, V highest point on Dartmoor last winter.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.prints-online.com%2Fcar-snow-dartmoor-devon-14244320.html&psig=AOvVaw1ST_cSwfVKaSKz71n3cLEO&ust=1628753489440000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAsQjRxqFwoTCIDEtN25qPICFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD

 

[phil d]

the thing with all this, and its something i have wondered about for years is this, we had an ice age millions of years ago and all life on the planet was wiped out, ok I accept this, however when you look at the argument put out by the activists that its all the cars and stuff that cause the change (they don't agree it's a cyclical event) then that begs another question, which is this, placed in a block of ice, how come a wooly mammoth just gets frozen solid, but an engine disappears?

Now before anyone thinks I've gone mad, well madder than I am, lol, seriously it makes sense doesn't it, I mean, if we accept that climate change is caused by emmisions and stuff then how come they only find the remains of things like wooly mammoths and not old ford escorts, see what I mean?

I'm still around the farms and lately one of the farmers went to a meeting  that was sort of hijacked by these climate change people, going on about how farm animals were damaging the planet, and that we shouldn't grow crops because that was harmful too! I wish I'd been there, I'd have shut them up the way I always do, tell them the way to save massive amounts of energy is to shut down the internet! Think about it, the amount of power used worldwide, not only for the servers but also to run the PC's and laptops, charge the smart devices and mobile phones, think how much less energy we'd use, but they don't like that idea, no we can all starve but we must keep the internet, well it shows the logic of the younger generation, lol.