storage heaters, circuits, economy 7 and economy 10

[Bizzy]

Can someone please advise: in my new property (no gas) I have 4 storage heaters, one of which is in the main bedroom, and 1 panel heater. I am on economy 7 tariff and have no problem with this as my previous property was the same. However, when I turned on 2 of the storage heaters they came on straight away, rather then on econ 7 times. I asked an electrician in to have a look and he tells me I have 3 circuits here - the immersion heater and 2 storage heaters being the only things on the econ 7. His solution is to have the meter changed, removing the teleswitch so will be a smart meter, and install timers on the 2 storage heaters so they come on to charge at the correct time. He also recommended replacing the storage heater in the bedroom with a panel heater, which makes sense to me as I'm not sure why there would be a storage heater in a bedroom - surely it would get too hot at night to be comfortable? He also suggested moving the heaters around so the 2 larger storage heaters are in the living room and replacing the panel heater in the smaller bedroom with the small storage heater, currently in the living room. The small bedroom is currently used as an office in the afternoons/evenings.

He assured me that currently none of the sockets in the kitchen are on economy 7 as they are on a different circuit. However, when I checked with meter readings it's clear that running the dishwasher overnight is actually drawing on the economy 7 tariff. He's now left me a bit confused! 

Added to this, when I called SSE to ask about changing the meter and to be reassured that smart meters do work with storage heaters, she asked whether I wanted economy 7 or 10. On paper, economy 10 looks far more user-friendly as, if I understand correctly, it would allow a couple of extra hours for the storage heaters to charge up in the day and not run out of heat in the evening. 

So my query is, does it sound like I have 2 circuits on econ 7 and one not? Is it advantageous to switch to econ 10, in terms of the heating system particularly? Can timers be installed on the storage heaters to cope with the economy 10 times, as they are far more broken up? I am still waiting to receive the quote back and am cold so am wanting to make an informed decision now!

Apologies for the extremely long post and thanks in advance for any advice. 

 

[ProDave]

If one storage heater is on all the time, it is wired to the wrong circuit.  But if you are changing that one to be a panel heater that is what you want, so no need to change that.

IF you do want more off peak circuits, you DO NOT need to involve the DNO or get the meter changed (unless you actually want any changes and are happy to deal with the likely grief you will get when it does not work)  All you normally need is a new circuit from the off peak consumer unit to a new storage heater.  If (as is often the case) there is no spare capacity in the off peak consumer unit then you might need the electrician to change that to a larger consumer unit.  If the electrician does not know that or is not capable, then he is the wrong electrician.

 

[Bizzy]

I do need more off-peak circuits, yes. I think running any of the storage heaters at peak time will be too expensive so 2 of them (or 3 if I move one to replace a panel heater) will need to be on Econ 7 circuit. I'd prefer all the sockets to be on Econ 7 so the appliances can be used at the cheaper rate.  I think he suggested what he did as it would be more cost effective possibly?

He is a from a company originally recommended by Dimplex..!

 

[ProDave]

You are miss understanding how E7 works.  At the cheap rate times, ALL loads used in the house are charged at the cheap rate.  So just use the timer functions built into most washing machines etc to set them to come on at night when it is cheap.

You could wire some sockets to power up only on the cheap rate times, but that would mean you would need pretty old appliances, e.g. a washing machine with an old type mechanical timer.  a modern washing machine with an electronic programmer would not just start up on it's own when the power comes on at midnight without you pushing some buttons to tell it what program to do.

 

[Bizzy]

No, I'm not misunderstanding at all as I've lived with the joy of economy 7 for 14 years and am pretty good at making sure over 70% of our electricity usage is during the 2 sets of low times.

I had to get the electrician in because 2 of the storage heaters in the new property do not come on at the Economy 7 times. Instead they heat up immediiately when you switch them on. This is not normal - unless they are the using the booster fan, which these 2 storage heaters do not possess. That's when he investigated and told me that the 3 circuits here were wired differently and only 1 was wired to the economy 7. He showed me the three different wires in the meter cupboard. He reckons it was wired that way originally as the builders anticipated putting in panel heaters instead. 

Both the washer/dryer and dishwasher all have the delayed timer function - they were purchased specifically with this in mind. He told me these sockets weren't on econ 7 - the same as the 2 storage heaters - but that can't be right as I checked with meter readings. So it's hard to tell which are on which circuit. 

 

[NozSpark]

If you have 24hr circuits where you want a storage heater, just get them to fit a Dimplex Quantum RF and set the charge times on the heater to your E7 times.... they're also apparently very good at retaining heat when it's not needed

 

[Bizzy]

I did look at Quantum but for the sizes needed it will be around £900 just for one and with the amount that needs doing that’s a bit too prohibitive at the moment. 

 

[ProDave]

He told me these sockets weren't on econ 7 - the same as the 2 storage heaters - but that can't be right as I checked with meter readings. So it's hard to tell which are on which circuit. 

All he meant by that is they are not connected to the off peak consumer unit, that is only energised during the cheap rate times.  He did not mean they would not benefit from the cheap rate during the night.

 

[Bizzy]

All he meant by that is they are not connected to the off peak consumer unit, that is only energised during the cheap rate times.  He did not mean they would not benefit from the cheap rate during the night.

He did as I queried him and he said there was benefit to switching on the washer as 3:00am. 

No benefit...

 

[ProDave]

He did as I queried him and he said there was benefit to switching on the washer as 3:00am. 

No benefit...

Well I think it is he who is not understanding how E7 works.  It is just possible you have the very old white meter system.  That had two completely different meters one for peak and one for off peak, and with that, it was only the off peak circuits that got the cheap rate.  But that was an old system 30 years ago so would be a very old system now.  E7 or E10 has a single electricity meter with two dials, one for day and one for night.

If you could post a picture of your meter(s) we could settle the argument.

 

[Bizzy]

It's not a dial one - it's a digital one. I'll try and post a pic of the set-up tomorrow.