Strange device

[SparkJ]

Does anyone know what this is?

I found it next to a consumer unit in a house that I need to quote for some work. Not come across anything like this before.

The earth system is TT; the consumer unit is the old style wired fuses.

I was expecting a 100ma RCD somewhere. But all I can see is this.

Ned to know:-

What is it?

Does it do the same job as an RCD?

Is it owned by the power company or the customer?

Can I dump it and install a time delayed RCD in it own enclosure?

 

[Monkeyboy]

Hi

The device is a ELCB Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker. These are now obsolete and they CAN'T be tested for trip times.

So ditch it and fit a RCD

Mark

 

[ian932]

Looks like an old ELCB as the earth goes into it, early vesion of the RCD

 

[ian932]

Our DNO will change these for DP Isolator for free.

 

[Evans Electric]

Yes its an old ELCB . They are voltage operated, not current. They are no longer recognised so dump it.

Deke

 

[electrizion]

These ELCB`s are obsolete and should be replaced by a modern rcd Not to sure who owns it depends which side of the meter it is i expect. I would not think the supply company will want it back

Just out of curiosity any particular reason you want to fit a timed delay rcd presumably you are changing the consumer unit and fitting 30ma rcds?

cheers

 

[Andy™]

What is it? Really old ELCB. obsolete. replace it soon as. almost guaranteed not to work

Does it do the same job as an RCD? this picks up on voltage on the earth. not residual difference like RCD's

Is it owned by the power company or the customer? Anything after the meter is customers

Can I dump it and install a time delayed RCD in it own enclosure? Why do you want a time delay? with 17th ed, there is no need for them

my red

 

[ian932]

Out of curiosity what work are you quoting for?

 

[SparkJ]

Thanks for your input guys.

The ELCB is between the main fuse and the meter so I guess it is the power company's responsibility.

Can I just leave it in place and fit an RCD somewhere else?

The reason that I thought about time delay was that there is a waterproof double socket on an outside wall of the property that has a 30ma RCD incorporated in it.

The job I am quoting for involves fitting a PIR security light over the driveway and two additional downlights in the utuility room. So somewhere I need to fit an RCD that works.

 

[batty]

Sparkj be very careful when quoting for this little job. I would not just change the trip for an Rcd as this will not comply with 17th edition. If they have any faults an Rcd will pick them up straight away so you are going to have to put them right. Voltage operated trips are not realible so there could be faults on the system. If you quote to do the work I would allow to put Rcd to cover your work only.

Batty

 

[Apache]

Sparkj be very careful when quoting for this little job. I would not just change the trip for an Rcd as this will not comply with 17th edition. If they have any faults an Rcd will pick them up straight away so you are going to have to put them right. Voltage operated trips are not realible so there could be faults on the system. If you quote to do the work I would allow to put Rcd to cover your work only.Batty

And get the power company to replace the ELCB with an isolator?

 

[M107]

If you are only working on the lighting circuit I'd think about installing a remote 30mA rcd & reconnect the circuit you are working on to the rcd, leaving the rest of the installation well alone until they upgrade the cu & all that it entails.

With your invoice give a cover letter explaining that the VOELCB needs replacing asap.

Explain that the problem with VOELCB's are that they will only operate if a fault current flows to earth, the fault current flows in and out of the device (so it doesn't operate like a modern rcd by comparing line & neutral current).

If there are bonding conductors giving a path to earth such as main equipotential bonds (that you'll probably need to install) and things like CPCs connected to boilers and water heaters the fault current may find a parallel path to earth, giving rise to exposed conductive parts rising in potential to earth............ or the flipping thing just wont trip as is the norm.

 

[M107]

And get the power company to replace the ELCB with an isolator?

Odds on they wont touch it patch not until the customer installs an rcd .

 

[batty]

Odds on they wont touch it patch not until the customer installs an rcd .

On all the installs I have seen with voltage operated circuit breakers they are on the consumers side. I find it hard to believe it is dno property. If so they would be responsible for earths coming out of it.

Batty

 

[SPECIAL LOCATION]

On all the installs I have seen with voltage operated circuit breakers they are on the consumers side. I find it hard to believe it is dno property. If so they would be responsible for earths coming out of it.Batty

I am inclined to agree with Batty here.

the only VO-ELCB's I have ever seen.. (& replaced)

have been on the consumers side directly before the CU. :|

 

[batty]

I am inclined to agree with Batty here.the only VO-ELCB's I have ever seen.. (& replaced)

have been on the consumers side directly before the CU. :|

Thanks specs

I like this forum its the only place where people agree with me.

Batty

 

[steptoe]

I am inclined to agree with Batty here.the only VO-ELCB's I have ever seen.. (& replaced)

have been on the consumers side directly before the CU. :|

would agree also with SL & Batty,

and AFAIK voltage trips are illegal, used to come across these a lot on old rural properties. would deffo go down the previously suggested route of protecting ONLY your circuits with a remote RCD and inform customer they seriously need some upgrading.

Albert.

 

[kme]

AND I`m in the same house!

The other issue (if they still work), is that your neighbour`s house can have an issue, which puts a voltage on the earth, and you`re out!

Obsolete units - IF it is where you say it is, inform DNO asap.

If customer`s responsibility - STRONGLY advise change, or walk away.

My opinion, for what its worth

KME