Surface mounted and rcd protection

[m4tty]

Hi,

I believed that if you added a socket which the wiring was surface mounted I thought I didn't need rcd protection. Have I got the wrong end of the stick again?

Cheers

 

[Andy™]

the socket must be RCD'd. if cable is surface, then the cable doesnt, so you could use an RCD socket

 

[m4tty]

Thanks andy, theory linked me to this

http://www.elecsa.org.uk/downloads/17th%20Edition%20Q%20and%20A%20factsheet.pdf

I read Q4 and wanted to know if I installed an sfcu with surface mounted cable then could I spur off ring at cu (bs3036) without adding an rcd?

Also would I become responsible for the ring circuit as I've been told there's spurs off spurs etc on this ring?

Trying to work out best way of doing it

cheers for replying mate

matt

 

[Andy™]

answer to Q4 states the cable will require RCD protection for cable in the wall. RCD wont be required surface. also, you asked about a socket. if in a house, it requires RCD'd. a SFCU may not depending what its for

and your only responsible for your work, but if the circuit is obviously dangerous then i would avoid it

 

[m4tty]

Will that be a minor works as I've not installed a new circuit. Just spurred from origin?

Cheers

 

[Apache]

Minor works, yes

 

[Badger]

so what about if the cables are in a loft space, and a trained skilled person is using the sockets for computer equipment and doesnt want rcd/rcbo protection due to the likely hood of computer power supply tripping the circuit

 

[Apache]

so what about if the cables are in a loft space, and a trained skilled person is using the sockets for computer equipment and doesnt want rcd/rcbo protection due to the likely hood of computer power supply tripping the circuit

Realistically how likely is it? Unless you have lots of computers.

 

[spinlondon]

The requirement for RCD protection on socket-outlets only applies to those intended for general use.

Here is the full text of the Regulation:

"411.3.3 Aditional protection

In a.c. systems, additional protection by means of an RCD in accordance with Regulation 415.1 shall be provided for:

(i) socket-outlets with a rated current not exceeding 20A that are for use by ordinary persons and are intended for general use, and

(ii) mobile equipment with a current rating not exceeding 32A outdors.

An exception to (i) is permitted for:

(a) socket-outlets for use under the supervision of skilled or instructed persons e.g. in some commercial or

industrial locations, or

(B) specific labelled or otherwise suitably identified socket-outlet provided for connection of a particular item of equipment."

There are a couple of notes, but they are not relevant to the OP.

 

[ianmacd]

so what about if the cables are in a loft space, and a trained skilled person is using the sockets for computer equipment and doesnt want rcd/rcbo protection due to the likely hood of computer power supply tripping the circuit

I run a fair number of machines off an rcbo without issue. Also 'trained skilled person' is not applicable to a dwelling.

 

[Apache]

Also 'trained skilled person' is not applicable to a dwelling.

Says who?

 

[batty]

Says who?

I do because if you move are you then going to put right the work you have done or if you get electrocuted due to the fact you don't do things buy the book will your wife then have to employ somebody to put right the work you have done.

 

[steptoe]

we have had this skilled person discussion before,

it is up to each person themselves to decide if they are skilled or not,

obviously a lot of "sparks" on this forum deem themselves NOT to be skilled.

I for one have non RCD protected sockets in my house, they are under my supervision, and when I move then it will be up to the new owners surveyor to pick this up, it is clearly visible on my cert that there is NO rcd on certain circuits.

 

[batty]

we have had this skilled person discussion before,it is up to each person themselves to decide if they are skilled or not,

obviously a lot of "sparks" on this forum deem themselves NOT to be skilled.

I for one have non RCD protected sockets in my house, they are under my supervision, and when I move then it will be up to the new owners surveyor to pick this up, it is clearly visible on my cert that there is NO rcd on certain circuits.

You do surprise me Steptoe having a youngster I always remember my daughter cutting through a cable with scissors when she was very young but luckily survived it.

 

[steptoe]

You do surprise me Steptoe having a youngster I always remember my daughter cutting through a cable with scissors when she was very young but luckily survived it.

no offence,

but should your child have scissors?

that is more about a parenting issue rather than an electrical reg.

I seriously doubt any of my non RCD protected sockets & associated cabling would either be accessible or cuttable by even a reasonable pair of pliers never mind scissors.

 

[Badger]

no offence,but should your child have scissors?

that is more about a parenting issue rather than an electrical reg.

I seriously doubt any of my non RCD protected sockets & associated cabling would either be accessible or cuttable by even a reasonable pair of pliers never mind scissors.

more to the point should batty have scissors :slap :slap:^O:innocent

 

[batty]

no offence,but should your child have scissors?

that is more about a parenting issue rather than an electrical reg.

I seriously doubt any of my non RCD protected sockets & associated cabling would either be accessible or cuttable by even a reasonable pair of pliers never mind scissors.

My children are 19 and 16 so probably have done something right althogh my daughter smoking is something I don't approve of. Personally I am happy having RCD protection on my sockets and will be upgrading my consumer unit if I get time to bring my installation up to 17th edition as I have done electrical work in two rooms with showers and baths.

 

[steptoe]

Batty, wasnt meant as a slight on your parenting abilities, more of an awareness we now have on how to ensure safety these days.

the first thing I done before we moved into our house was to have a frontend RCD fitted, then as time passed and I rewired it I added 30mA protection as I saw fit, I have certain circuits I dont see as requiring it as I have control as to what/how anything is fitted/done,

I agree DIY is something different, but as being 'in the trade' so to speak, my home is not having holes drilled wily-nily.

I have control over what is done and what is not, so my home is under the control of a skilled(or as has been stated,instructed[as I am instructed by Aggie]) person.

 

[Andy™]

I do because if you move are you then going to put right the work you have done or if you get electrocuted due to the fact you don't do things buy the book will your wife then have to employ somebody to put right the work you have done.

and?

what if the commercial building has skilled or instructed person, so no RCDs/ does that mean it must be altered to everything with RCD incase the next owner doesnt have skilled or nstructed persons?

 

[ianmacd]

Says who?

BRB 411.3.3. It states commercial or industrial but not domestic. A dwelling, by definition can not be industrial or commercial and not be domestic.